Episode 91: Breaking Bipolar + Eating Disorder Myths With Ayanna Bates
Episode 89: Breaking Bipolar + Eating Disorder Myths With Ayanna Bates
In this episode we sit down with....Ayanna Bates.
Ayanna is a Mental Health Advocate, sharing resources and awareness of suicide prevention and mental illness, including eating disorders and depression. She is also certified in Mental Health First Aid, trained to provide initial help to young people struggling with their mental health and substance use disorders. She is a National Ambassador and the Ambassador Program Manager for Project HEAL, hosting fundraisers and speaking events to raise awareness of eating disorders.
Ayanna is a NAMI NYC Ambassador, an affiliate of America’s largest grassroots mental health organization, the National Alliance on Mental Illness. She manages a blog and is an author of the book, An Old Teen. Ayanna is working towards her BA in Psychology at CUNY Queens College and plan to become a Licensed Clinical Social Worker.
In this conversation we talk about:
***TRIGGER WARNING: We discuss sensitive details related to suicidal thoughts, eating disorders, and mental health.Please consider this before listening & skip if needed***
Ayanna’s personal correlations in her mental health and body image journey
The lack of representation in mental health & eating disorders
Myths and truths of bipolar disorder
The importance of finding community in your healing journey
Connect with our guest...
Twitter: @worth_recovery
Her Book An Old Teen, a collection of poetry about mental health, self esteem, and recovery
Her online shop, Ayanna's Inspo Shop, (50% percent of the proceeds go towards Project HEAL)
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TRANSCRIPTION
Episode 91: Breaking Bipolar + Eating Disorder Myths With Ayanna Bates
Katelyn:
Ayanna Bates, welcome to Body Truth!
Ayanna:
Thank you, Katelyn, for having me.
Katelyn:
We're so happy that you are here. I cannot wait to hear all about your personal story and what you are so deeply passionate about sharing today. Let's just jump right in. The first question that we ask everyone is your first body awareness moment. What did that look like for you- that moment where you realized, I'm in a body and this means something in the world that I'm living in. Share your story, and also, how that moment impacted your relationship with your body and/or food moving forward.
Ayanna:
That's such a great question. I think for me, it has to be my first day of kindergarten. I remember being really, really scared and uncomfortable. Definitely think I had undiagnosed social anxiety. You know, it's normal to be nervous for your first day. But I just felt like I was very hyper aware of everything. And specifically, my body. Like, the clothes that I was wearing. And just feeling really uncomfortable in my skin, and very hyper focused on what people are gonna think of me. I just remember, my dad walking with me into the building, I was wearing my favorite Barbie dress. But for some reason, it was something that normally would feel comfortable, like wearing my favorite dress, or doing my hair my favorite way, but I was just very unsure, like, how people were going to perceive me. You know, at five years old, it was such a very weird foreign feeling. And throughout the whole day, I was crying, I really just wanted to go home, I didn't want to be in this space anymore. I kept having this feeling that everybody was looking at me. And you know, all the kids when we entered the kindergarten classroom, you know, didn't want to be there, or they were afraid to be away from their parents and things like that. But you know, normally when you get into the classroom, that's something you can get over, find your friend. And, you know, you play with the toys, and you start to feel okay, but for the entire day, I just couldn't not shake the spirit that people were looking at me funny, or that they didn't want to be my friend, or that they thought my hair looked weird. Or they could see that my fingers look weird. Or someone didn't like my Barbie dress. And I just remember how that affected my relationship with food. Like that day, I didn't want to eat lunch. I didn't want to eat my sack. And as someone now who is in recovery for an eating disorder, I had to do that work in a treatment center. You know, think back to the time where you realize your relationship with food was disordered. And I really had to think back. And I think back to this first day in kindergarten, where I was having uncomfortable emotions, feeling insecure in my body at five. And my response is to not eat. That was a coping mechanism for me. I find that very interesting.
Katelyn:
I find it really interesting as well, too. When you made that choice, I know it was when you were five years old, but do you remember anything around that decision to not eat? Was that intentionally related to how you were feeling in your body? Were you able to kind of tie that together at the time or did you realize that later on?
Ayanna:
Definitely something I realized later on- that this was my eating disorder. I always say it's more like self harm. It's something that I engage in when I want to feel in control. And so thinking back to that moment, the kindergarten classroom, the uncompromised mind body, feeling really insecure and just having that out of control feeling. That was my response, you know, they put the snack in front of me. And I was having all these anxious thoughts. And I just thought, well, I can decide whether or not to eat, or how little I want to eat. And that was like me taking control at that moment, or numbing out wanting to escape. So I didn't have the words to formulate that at that age. But I see those same patterns when I was deep in my eating disorder, as it showed up in my teenage years and young adulthood. And doing that work, I saw similar patterns at that young age.
Katelyn:
When did you realize you had an eating disorder?
Ayanna:
I realized I had an eating disorder at 17 years old. When I was first engaging in these behaviors, I didn't right away acknowledge that it was an eating disorder. I just thought like, Oh, I just have an unhealthy relationship, like with food, or like disordered eating. But it was a full blown eating disorder. To the point where I was trying to figure out, I wanted to keep using the behaviors that I was doing. But I also wanted to get help. I was going back and forth with my healthy mind, and the eating disorder thoughts in my brain. But when I was looking up what an eating disorder was I just remembered, I didn't see anyone who looked like me, as a black woman. All I saw was thin, white women. So I was like, okay, then, if I don't really see any information related to me, and my presentation, me as a human, like, I didn't see anything related to my identity. Now I've been diagnosed as OSFED: Other Specified Feeding and Eating Disorder. And as again, behaviors, all I saw was anorexia, or bulimia. So I didn't really even like meet the criteria. Like, I wasn't severely underweight, there were a lot of behaviors that I just kept seeing popping up that didn't relate to me. It was confusing.
Katelyn:
Yeah, I can imagine. I can only imagine. And it's deeply problematic. I'm so glad that we're talking about this. There are so many things that I want to ask you around this. But before we move forward in the conversation, what, what were some of the signals that were guiding your intuition that this was more than just a disordered relationship with food? Because I'm hearing you say that you just kind of knew intuitively that something was not right, which was prompting you to start this research around what eating disorders were, but then also getting this feedback from the messaging that you were coming up within your search that did not really reflect the person that you were, you didn't really see yourself in any of the search results. So what were some of the specific behaviors or not necessarily super specific, but just some of the things that were kind of allowing you to believe that it needed to be paid attention to a little bit more than just a problematic relationship with food?
Ayanna:
Yeah, definitely. I feel like at one point, for me, I was struggling with depression. And so like I said, like, it felt like self harm for me because I was just trying to find a way to manage that, or to numb out or to feel in control. I have used my eating disorder for a lot of things. And it just felt very self destructive. Before it was just skipping meals here and there, like maybe I didn't get a chance to eat in the morning, whatever. Like, I just didn't want to eat lunch. And it started out like that. So I didn't really think anything of it. But as my depression that was restricting my food intake got worse, it was very harmful. You know, I wasn't sleeping. I was very tired all the time. Just physically felt drained. And to the point where I wasn't feeling hungry anymore, either. I lost my hunger cues. And I just didn't want to take care of myself anymore. Um, and also struggling with suicidal thoughts. I was like wow I went this many days without eating- how long can I keep doing that for? And when I started having thoughts like that, like, you know, the healthy mind, we'll come back in a little bit like, um, like, those aren't like normal thoughts that people have. That's something you need to look at, like, that's not a normal thing to say, like, I went this long not eating, like, how long can I go for? So when I started having thoughts like that, and getting really competitive with myself and tracking my calories, and just engaging those kinds of behaviors, I knew it was getting to a point where it wasn't just like, skipping meals here and there, or like a diet gone wrong or anything like that. It was very destructive. And I was actively hurting myself hoping that the longer that I went without eating, that I just wouldn't wake up the next morning. Like that was the goal, as I was struggling with suicidal thoughts and depression.
Katelyn:
Yeah, it's so tough. I have the most tremendous amount of empathy for you at this point in your story as well, too. What was your environment, like, at that time when, when you were in high school and you were really starting to struggle? What were your friends like? Did you have close relationships? Were you engaged in sports? Where were you kind of putting your attention outside of food or your body, if at all?
Ayanna:
Yeah, I had a really great life despite everything, like high school environment, and home life, you know, I'm an older sibling of two, and have a really close relationship with my parents- super supportive. And in high school, I had great close knit friends. I was involved in different sports- track, the fencing team. I was President of the Writing Center. So I just had a lot of things going on that I looked forward to. I loved writing. And I loved being with my friends and hanging out after school. And you know, and being 17 like looking forward to prom and, and things like that. I was really involved in different activities with my friend and writing.
Katelyn:
Did anyone know that you were struggling? Did you confide in anyone?
Ayanna:
They did. Because I was the friend that was always so positive. I was always smiling. I was the one that people went to with their problems. Everyone was always asking for advice. I was the bubbly one. I was the one who always saw the bright side of things. So I was first struggling with suicidal thoughts and depression my freshman year of high school, but I still was able to force that smile. And you know, try to be that positive energetic one out of my friends. But as I reached my senior year 17 It just got really, really dark. Like it was hard to smile. I didn't want to be around my friends. I wasn't always going to the writing center anymore. Fencing, I wasn't really interested in that as much. You know, I was skipping class. I loved school, and I loved my classes. I was skipping class, sometimes staying up really late. And it wasn't fun anymore. My friends were just like, are you okay? Like what's going on? Like, they didn't know how to handle it because I was the bubbly one. So now, I was crying all the time. I had really bad crying spells. always crying like I spent my last senior year of school just like in tears all the time. And I couldn't explain it to people. I didn't know it was depression. At first. I just knew I was really, really sad. And I was feeling that way. For four years. It was normal at that point. So I didn't have the language to describe to my friends when I was going through just burst into tears. I couldn't explain it. Because there was nothing I would say like traumatic or anything that happened To me, that was like a catalyst for depression is just something that I was going through. Nothing brought me to that place. Just a chemical imbalance in my brain. That's just how it was. And it got worse as I got older. So, yeah, they didn't know I would talk to my friends, one of my friends knew I was really suicidal. And she was trying to get me to eat, as I was struggling with my eating disorder. And she was really, really supportive. I'm very thankful to this day for her. She was the one who encouraged me to bring up these things to my parents, because they didn't know what I was going through in high school, because I was, you know, I had all the good grades. I'm super outgoing. And being an older sister too like, I was an example for my siblings. And everyone looked to me, for like, that sense of everything was going great with her. So no one was really thinking I had a problem. But when I was telling my friend like, I don't want to be here anymore. I don't think I can keep going. She's like, if you don't talk to your parents, I'm going to say something. That conversation didn't go the way that I wanted it to. My parents are better now. But like, in the beginning, they didn't understand. And I loved writing. So I didn't really know how to put into words what I was going through. But when I would journal, like I would spill my guts, so I shared with my parents, journal entries that I wrote, that kind of encompassed all of the dark thoughts that I was having. And the sadness I was feeling, and my not wanting to eat, and they read it, and they're just kind of like, I don't get it. Like, there's nothing for you to be sad about, you know, you have good grades, you have friends that have a supportive family. I don't understand what you're saying right now. Like, there's nothing to be sad about. So it was like super invalidating. And, you know, at one point, I kind of had to beg for therapists, like, I really need one, like, you know, my friend, she's concerned about me. And sometimes I'm concerned about myself. I'm like, I think I need to talk to someone. And they kind of were just like, I don't know, if that's really necessary. Like, there's nothing wrong with you. But why do you think you need to see someone? They just didn't get it initially. So it wasn't validating. It took me a long time to realize that it's okay to ask for help. And like, there doesn't need to be a singular reason for why eating disorders develop or why depression develops, like, some times, this is a chemical imbalance in the brain. It's a mental illness, it's an illness. And it doesn't have to come from a traumatic event or anything like that. Sometimes it just happens. And that's hard for people to understand, especially being that person who was always positive and always had things going for her and being that excited person who had all these activities going on saying that I'm depressed, and I don't want to be here anymore. People just didn't get it.
Katelyn:
Do you think that it had anything to do with the fact of the lack of representation within mental health and eating disorders? Do you think that's something that was kind of keeping your family from really understanding what you were going through?
Ayanna:
Yeah, I think, especially with the eating disorder, it is just super complicated. Like when I was struggling, I didn't know half of why I was doing what I was doing. I didn't have a language for it. And I think that is the issue- there's not enough education. And then also to like the stigma, especially in a black community, that like, therapy, like there's something wrong with you, if you want to go to therapy, or it's a sign of weakness. And no one placed that on me. My family didn't, you know, make me feel like I was weak or anything like that for going to therapy. But it's just like, what's something To like, they just didn't get it. And also, I think it was kind of like a fear response. Like, oh, my goodness, like, is it something wrong that I did? Like, they took therapy as a sign of like, we did something wrong, like, we failed somewhere. When in reality, like therapy, it has nothing to do with weakness or sign of failure, or there's something wrong with you. It's very, very, very healthy, to seek out a therapist that actually makes us stronger. For saying, hey, no, I think I need my benefits and from additional help, hands on, but at that time, for my family and just in black community in general I dislike therapy- it’s just like, a no no.
Katelyn:
Uh huh. Yeah, it's interesting to talk about different communities, racial communities, as well, and the generational gap as well, too. I know, in my experience with my family, it was the same and I come from a white family where it was like, oh, did we do something wrong, because you need therapy, you know, like, it just wasn't as widely accepted in my parents generation. And it still really isn't, you know, and I'm so grateful that we can have conversations like this, in the mental health movement with our generation to really destigmatize reaching out and asking for support and normalizing therapy and coaching and support for all of these different areas. Ayanna, what did that look like for you to finally get support after going through these hoops and having these hard conversations? When did you actually start to get the support that you needed?
Ayanna:
Yeah, it was amazing to be able, and I'm definitely very thankful, recognizing my privilege, and being able to access the care that I did, because I needed a lot more than a weekly therapy session, I needed to go to treatment. So I was, I'm going to say, like early 20’s. I think I just turned 21. I ended up checking myself into a treatment center. Because people just didn't understand why I needed to go. Or they didn't think I needed to. And I thought I was making a big deal out of nothing. But I knew I needed to go because it was really disrupting a lot of areas in my life. Now I'm out of high school. And I had started college, but I had to leave for financial reasons. So then I was just doing jobs here and there. And like my job performance, I had to quit because like, I wasn't showing up in different areas of my life. I wasn't showing up for my family and my loved ones. I wasn't being productive at work. And it was just going really downhill. And I knew I needed to hit the reset button. I needed to get some clarity and seek help. So I checked myself into a treatment center. It was an eating disorder treatment center. And initially, I thought I was just gonna go there in the evenings, maybe like three days out of the week. But when I was telling them my behavior, that I wasn't eating all day, and I'm doing that for a long period of time, they're like you need more intensive treatment. So I traveled to the city, Renfrew Treatment Center. I traveled to Manhattan, Queens, every day from 9-3, five days out of the week, had my two meals there with them and was set up with a dietician and a therapist participating in group therapy. And one of the biggest things too, was getting the correct diagnosis. So I was diagnosed with OSFED. And then Bipolar II Disorder, which was a huge thing to get diagnosed with, because I initially thought it was just depression. So the medication that I was taking prior to treatment was not helping it was actually making the suicidal thoughts worse. So getting that diagnosis of Bipolar II, while it was scary it made a lot of sense and explained. Like a lot of the times people said I was super bubbly and like I'm super positive all the time, like those were hypomanic episodes that I didn't know. That's what that was. So, yeah, I was able to treat the suicidal thoughts of bipolar two disorder, depression and hypomania. It was life changing to access care.
Katelyn:
How did you digest that information once you received it? Because I'm hearing a lot of empowerment in your story and a lot of validation and being able to name that. But was there ever a period where you had to kind of grieve these diagnoses that you were receiving? Or did you approach it a different way where it was just like, Thank you, and let's get to work?
Ayanna:
I definitely was ready to get to work. Because I always felt like there was something wrong with me. And I just kept asking all the time, like, why do I feel so sad? Why do I have all these thoughts? Like, I'm suicidal. But I don't actually want to die. Like, that's not me. That's not who I am. Where are these things coming from? Like, why do I think like this? Why is this happening to me? I just didn't understand. So to have someone say, Well, having Bipolar II Disorder, these are the kind of thoughts that you have, these are the kinds of symptoms that show up. Like, that makes a lot of sense. You know, people thought that something traumatic happened to me and my family, they thought that something caused the depression and my problem with food. They were like, something happened, like she didn't feel comfortable sharing, like, there was something else deeper going on like, no, it's just the illness- it’s a mental illness. So I thought, like sometimes, that I was a fraud too, because things were going so well in my life. I had a job. And I was able to finish school and start college, and I had a supportive family. So I just did not understand why all of these things were happening to me and why I felt so depressed. So to have the diagnosis just made a lot of sense. And I was able to put a name to a lot of things that I was feeling. And I was able to connect the dots, and also just get the proper care. Because now I knew that I didn't need just a general therapist, and even a sort of therapist, someone who specializes in disorders. I didn't just need to be on antidepressants. I needed to be on antipsychotics, because I have Bipolar II Disorder. So it really changed the game. And once I got on the right medication, once I had the treatment team, I felt so much better. And it just improved my care, improved my quality of life. So in a way, I'm very, very thankful that I got those diagnoses. I just, it doesn't validate. I was just really seeking that validation. Because I felt like I was doing something wrong. And to know that, oh, that's just, that's just a symptom of this illness. It's not me- eating disorder, bipolar II, depression. That's not me. That's the illness. And to manage it and having that treatment team in place really helped.
Katelyn:
Amazing, it's so empowering, that you showed up for yourself in this way, when nobody else was really encouraging you to do it, you just went for it and followed your gut instinct that you needed this type of support. It really is remarkable. So after getting this diagnosis and getting on the proper medication, which is life changing in itself, you also acknowledged the treatment team that you were working with. How long was this period? And also, what are some of the highlights during this period- what were some of those breakthrough moments, whether it was like you mentioned connecting the dots? Were there any really important thoughts that got connected or any tools that you learned that were life changing? Or anything that really stands out for you during this treatment phase of your recovery?
Ayanna:
Yeah, so I was in the treatment facility for three months and then I was eventually able to go on to an individual therapist that specializes in eating disorders and specializes in bipolar disorder. So having that team in place was very, very helpful. And I was participating in that with the treatment center, and then that individual therapist for about three years altogether, and how a lot of it is, like, I understood my relationship with food. And I was able to understand the triggers, I went along with it. And really understanding that eating disorders look different for everybody. Because I assumed, and also just with information that I had going on, that I had, as I was doing my own research, that I didn't have any disorder because I wasn't engaging in XY and Z, or, you know, I wasn't severely underweight. But when I went to treatment, and was really doing the work, and even everyone who was there, like, there were people from all ages, all backgrounds, different shapes and sizes, and we're all struggling with the same thing. And even though it showed up differently, it really showed me that anyone can struggle with this disease and that eating disorders don’t discriminate- mental illnesses don't discriminate. And while it sucks that a lot, all of us were there for such terrible reasons, it was also helpful in a way to know that there are other people out there who are struggling similarly, and that there is help available. So it was empowering. And I was just able to learn that I am much stronger than I gave myself credit for. The treatment that I was undergoing, and working with my therapist, I was able to, you know, learn how to advocate for myself, and learn how to say no. I was always the person who was trying to please everyone and say yes to everything. And people would take advantage of my kindness. And it was also just very detrimental to my mental health, always trying to please other people. Like at the expense of, of my health and wellness. So really, I found my voice through treatment, and really started to establish values for myself. Like what does life look like, beyond your eating disorder? And it's like, I want to be independent. I want to have my own voice. I want to go into psychology and study that and eventually become a therapist myself. And so once I started having clear goals, and a clear sense of direction, and really starting to love myself again and accept myself, things started to turn around for me in such beautiful ways, and I'm in such a better place than I was five, six years ago.
Katelyn:
That's amazing. I'm so happy for you. Let's talk about bipolar disorder a little bit more. Is that cool?
Ayanna:
Yeah, definitely.
Katelyn:
We've actually never had a conversation like this on the podcast before. So you still struggle with this, correct? I mean, you've gone through treatment, you're on medication now. But are you still classified as somebody who has bipolar disorder?
Ayanna:
Yeah, um, I definitely don't want to speak for everybody. For me, I definitely believe that this is something I've heard other people with bipolar disorder say, the same sentiment, that it's something that you live with. It's an ongoing thing. And you just manage it. You know, if you are able to and to connect to the treatment team that you need, you are getting access to care. I know that's so hard, that everyone has access to therapy and a psychiatrist. There are free resources. But it's not just like snapping fingers and you can get connected. But I was fortunate enough to get connected to the care that I needed. And so I still have an illness that I live with, but it does not control my life. And just keeping up with the medication and keeping up with therapy. I'm able to have a wonderful quality of life. If I wasn't on medication or you know, taking care of myself in the way that I am. That it would just be so much worse. So yeah, it's definitely something I wouldn't say I struggle with, but it's something that I do live with, that I'm aware of. And I'm aware of any triggers or things that come up. For me, it's Bipolar II Disorder. So I sometimes have hypomanic episodes. And hypomania is kinda like a low grade mania, where I might stay up really, really late. I'm super talkative. Like, I feel like I can do anything, I might get involved in like a bunch of different projects and take on a bunch of different things. I'm very hyperactive. And so I know when that's happening, like, Okay, I need to have self care. I need to make sure I check in with my psychiatrist. I really need to be on top of my sleep schedule. And then that normally leads into a depressive episode. But because I'm keeping up with therapy, and medication, it's not, you know, keeping me down the depression. So just really working through that with my therapist, and just taking care of myself, and just watching out for any of the signs of things are starting to feel like it's becoming unmanageable. That's when I continue to consult my team.
Katelyn:
When does that happen? When does it feel unmanageable for you? What are some of the symptoms that you tune into?
Ayanna:
Yeah, so for me, right now, I'm currently a college student. And I'm actually looking into grad applications and things. So for me, it shows up with stress. Stress is a huge trigger. And that's something I'm still working with. I'm not the best at handling stress, even with all of the therapy that I've experienced and the tools that I've had, it's still just something that I'm just not great at, I definitely need to be better. But normally, when I get really, really overwhelmed with stress, and that's normal during like midterms, or finals weeks or anything like that, that's normally what triggers those kinds of episodes like hypomanic episodes, where I'm like, I'm just staying up all night, or, you know. I'm taking on different projects and things like that. And that then triggers depression. So I definitely try my best to not let the stress turn into something like that. And that's just like, taking more breaks, saying no to things, and engaging in activities that are fun, and are not just centered around school and work. But that's something I'm still working on.
Katelyn:
Well, I mean, we're constantly a work in progress, right? Never done, which is so beautiful, when we can just surrender to that right? When we don't have to be fixed and we can just keep evolving and give ourselves that really lovely permission to do that. And to reach out for support. I mean, I'm certainly speaking for myself here. I really am echoing so much of your story, though. I'm so glad we're talking about bipolar disorder because first of all, you know- and we’ve talked about this a lot on the podcast before- there is a high correlation with mental health disorders and eating disorders. And I also think there is a severe lack of education around bipolar disorder, and a heavy dose of stigma in our culture because of that lack of education and representation as well, too. So from your experience, where is society getting it wrong? What do you want more people to understand about bipolar disorder first, and then we'll go into eating disorders?
Ayanna:
Yeah, I definitely agree with you. There's a lot of stigma. I'm really not happy with, you know, terms like “you’re so bipolar”, you know, when they're not actually diagnosed with anything or, you know, “they're acting crazy”. Like, “they're schizophrenic”, stuff like that. When you normalize sayings like that, with people who actually have lived experience with such mental health disorders and bipolar disorder, it does a disservice and the people who actually are living that experience or now they are labeled as “crazy” and also that you can't manage it. Like, once you're diagnosed with that, like, that's all you are, and you're not able to have a job and have friends and, you know, get a degree and be successful and thriving. People just think that they're crazy, and think they're incapable of doing anything. So that's very hard and disheartening. And I think once we just normalize that, therapy is okay, like medication is wonderful. People, you know, trying to find the right dosage and right medication that works for you. But there's nothing wrong with therapy, there's nothing wrong with medication, you can have a diagnosis of bipolar disorder- there’s nothing wrong with you and you aren’t broken. And it definitely doesn't mean that you are crazy. So if we could stop using those words, so loosely, and putting those labels on people, I think, we would really encourage others to get the proper treatment that they deserve. And create an environment of support. Because I feel like if you have those statements out there like that. And we're really downplaying illnesses by saying things like, “Oh, they're so bipolar”, things like that. It discourages people from wanting to seek help, and they don't feel safe to do so. So we can create an environment of accepting and normalizing mental illness, like any other health struggle, and not making it sound like it's just this outrageous thing to have. It's normal, to be diagnosed with bipolar disorder, and it doesn't mean anything's wrong.
Katelyn:
I love that. I completely agree with everything that you just shared around that. I also want to just plug in that it's not your responsibility- “your” meaning everybody who's listening, and you and mine- it’s not our responsibility to self diagnose. So if you're listening to this thinking, Oh, my gosh, how do I know if I need help or not? This sounds like me. That's enough. The right support team, the right therapist, the right psychiatrist- they are the ones responsible for guiding you in the right direction for support and diagnosing accurately.
Ayanna:
Absolutely, absolutely. I think there is a culture of self diagnosing, which is, I understand, maybe if you don't have immediate access to therapy, or anything like that, you might feel compelled to do that. But it does yourself a disservice when you do that, because you're not getting the proper care that you need, or there's something lacking in that treatment, when you self diagnose. So it's just so much better to reach out to a professional, so you can get the care that you deserve. And take that burden off of yourself. I definitely felt that way. At one point when I was in my search for like what's going on with me, I was self diagnosing, and I thought I had so many other different things before I finally arrived at a professional who was like, No, this is actually what you're going through. And I was able to get connected to the right support. But with self diagnosing and relying on Google doctor, it's just not helpful. And it just prolonged my suffering and struggles because I wasn't looking in the right places. So plug into a professional. There are resources out there. For those who, you know, maybe don't have insurance, or nonprofits. If you're a student, most college campuses have the mental health center in school campuses, love your counselors. So just reaching out to someone that can make sure you get connected to a professional.
Katelyn:
This is where it gets really tangley in my opinion, I know certainly in this community, and it sounds like it might have been that way in your story- I know it certainly was for me- surrendering to the identity of being able to fix it all, and do it all, and figure it all out, and being the go-to person for advice, and the one who kind of has all of the “answers”, and just letting go of that identity in service of getting the support that you need. Lowering that bar for yourself, and just realizing how powerful it is when you do reach out and ask for help and support. There's so much to unpack with that- the frustration and that difficulty in asking for support and why that's coming up. So if, if that's where you're at, too, that's a good indication that if you don't want to ask for support, you probably need to ask for support. There's something else to look at there. I know it was like that for me.
Ayanna:
Yeah, definitely. It's disarming. And you have to be like, I need help. Like saying those words out loud, it doesn't always feel good. But once you get the help, oh, my goodness, it just makes things so much easier than struggling in silence. And just that stubbornness of not wanting to ask for help, worrying about how it's going to come off. Because it does yourself a disservice. So just lay down the armor, and ask for the help.
Katelyn
How about stigma or myths about eating disorders? What have you found to be the most true around this? What are you the most pissed off with? What do we need to know in our culture around these two things?
Ayanna:
Yeah, with eating disorders, I think we're coming around to it now that that it doesn't discriminate and that anyone of any size and shape of background can have it, but I still see this like on social media and like, tick tock which have love hate relationship with just like perpetuating that an eating disorder is a thin, white issue. And then also, anorexia is like the only real eating disorder that exists, but there are so many different paths inside. It looks different for everybody. And to me, it's like the bottom line is, your relationship with food is disrupted. If your thoughts are preoccupied with food, whether it's restricting, or binging, or you have an unhealthy relationship with exercise in your body, if those kinds of thoughts are preoccupying your mind all day every day, then it's something you need to look into. And talk to a professional. It doesn't always have to be anorexia, you do not have to be a certain weight to have an eating disorder. I feel like when people are getting turned away, like from a doctor who's like, well, you don't look sick, then someone who's struggling with an eating disorder, their mind is like well, okay, well, I'm not sick enough, then I need to keep going. I don't know why waiting for people to be severely sick, to get the treatment that they need. And that's not on the individual that has access. It doesn't naturally, the stereotypes of thin white anorexia, own a disorder out there. And then also doctors to the primary cares that are turning people away. Or invalidating people's experiences to the point where they're not reaching out for help, or they are further hurting themselves. So they can meet this very, very, like the diagnostic criteria DSM, for eating disorders. That's not the be all end all. For people who are struggling, it shows up differently. So really, just being open to people's experience, if someone is coming to you having very preoccupied thoughts about food in my body and unhealthy relationship. That's something that needs to be explored. Whether it's disordered eating or actual requires an actual diagnosis of an eating disorder. We cannot dismiss those issues that people
are bringing attention to.
Katelyn:
Yeah, there's such a fine line in the diagnosis these days too just because diet culture is so rampant and we've just normalized this preoccupation with food. So when it comes down to like a bare bones diagnosis for an eating disorders, I've often found it's it's complicated sometimes to actually make that distinction because it has become so normal, which is incredibly problematic and frustrating, and something that we need to do better at as a society through our own work and education and just creating safe spaces for people to feel like they can show up and ask these tough questions. So I hear you. What was the biggest struggle in your recovery? When you look back and you think about your time. I know that you consider yourself still in recovery today too, right?
Ayanna:
Yeah, I do. I know, I go back and forth like, fully recovered or recovered. Everyone has a different definition. To me, I think at this moment, I definitely am not actively struggling, or engaging in any behaviors, and I have a healthier relationship with food. And so to me, I still believe though, and from my personal experience, I've always been in recovery, because life is always changing. Circumstances are always changing. And just like my self development, there's always going to be something that I'm learning about myself, or maybe new behaviors or things that pop up, that I still actively explore and work through therapy. So I always feel like I will always be in recovery. I'm not actively struggling. And so that's how I make that distinction for myself.
Katelyn:
So this is so interesting. And for everyone who has been in recovery or is in recovery, I hear you everyone has a different interpretation of this. I love asking this question and finding out where everybody's at with this. But what I think is so fascinating, is what you just said about, you're still exploring, and you're still discovering things about yourself. And so defining yourself kind of as that in recovery. Just kind of that, that label that you feel comfortable with. And I always think about, Wow, I feel like that's every single person in life. If you're kind of woke to personal development, and growing and evolving, and all these things, right, I just kind of have to laugh when I think about this for myself, too, because if we think about it that way, we're all in recovery from something- like every single human who is continuing to live life and be faced with the changes that they're going through on a daily basis, whether that's physical, mental, or emotional, environmental, and all of the other things as well, too. But I think that I've found so much peace in just learning to surrender to that. Because for a while I was just like, oh, my god like this feels overwhelming. Just that label of being in recovery and never being done when everyone around me is telling me to fix it. You know, our culture says, when are you going to be good enough? Like, when is it going to be fixed? When is it going to be over? When is the problem going to be solved? Rather than just laying down my guard and saying, can I give myself permission to just always be evolving and growing and learning and exploring and elevating in my relationship with myself?
Ayanna:
Yes, yes. I love that.
Katelyn:
There are so many things that I want to keep asking you about. But I feel like if I keep asking you it's going to go into a completely different conversation. It's going to be two hours long. What are some of the biggest takeaways that you can leave us with today? For somebody who is actively struggling right now, what would you say to them? Besides just reaching out and asking for support, what are some tools that you might be able to offer somebody that have really helped you?
Ayanna:
So for me, I know people say it all the time, but journaling is so wonderful. That's been with me since I was deeply in my struggles and then through the therapy process and now as I found the peace with my relationship with continuing to journal and check in with myself, that keeps me grounded and that helps me along my recovery journey and just like this journey of life in general, keeping a journal, just finding ways to check in. So if you're not not a big writer then find something to do, where you can check in with yourself. So definitely therapy, if you can access it. There are free support groups. And then also, if it's running, if it's taking time to listen to music, if it's going to a coffee shop, if it's meeting up with a friend, something where you can just Netflix, if you just want to watch Netflix, like taking time for yourself, checking in with yourself, being intimate with yourself, yoga, anything where you can stop, and just be with yourself. Because that's when you can learn what's happening to you. Are you feeling good? Are you feeling upset? Do you need to check in with somebody doing that self exploration that's checking in with yourself as much as possible, as a real asset to your recovery journey. And really that stepping stone to getting the care that you need and deserve?
Katelyn:
Love. Final question that just popped into my mind- how can people advocate for themselves better? I'm sure that there will be many people listening to this conversation who are thinking, I have a family or a group of friends, or a community who just won't understand and are probably feeling really alone right now. So coming out of that similar experience for yourself, how would you empower somebody to just get the help that they need, or take the next step when they feel like they're on their own?
Ayanna:
Yeah. There are communities out there. Maybe your immediate family or friend or loved one is just not getting it. But there is someone out there, who does, there is your community. I definitely had to find that for myself. And so walking into, like support groups, or even just like the mental health community online, this also very empowering Instagram, go just find you will find your people. It's out there. If you know for yourself that you're struggling, and you feel like you can't talk to the people around you seeking out that community. Because those resources and those tools are out there, and might not be in your immediate circle. But they do exist. So I really do encourage you to find your people and find that support team. And you will be welcomed in this space that you are seeking, whether it's the eating disorder treatment center, or if you're struggling with depression, anxiety, there are resources, support groups, and community out there for you to connect to. I know sometimes I still personally don't always talk to my family members about my disorder, because they just don't get it and at this point it's not my job to educate them on it. So I have my own community and support group that I attend, and other people who are like minded and other resources that I can turn to you. If I feel like I need to dive deeper, like I'm having a bad day- having a bad body image or any urges or anything like that, I have a community that I can turn to unfortunately, it's not my immediate people. It's just, it's just not clicking. But that community exists out there.
Katelyn:
Mm hmm. Right. Yeah. I'm so glad that you said that. Okay, final final question. I promise. How do you navigate a bad body image day?
Ayanna:
Honestly. I felt like I had to keep forcing myself and just accept it by the way it is like, like, you know, you're trying so hard to come back to those thoughts and you're fighting with yourself. But for me, I just had to just sit with it. Like I'm feeling uncomfortable in my body right now. These feelings suck, but I'm doing great. My body is helping me walk today. Helped me get out of bed this morning. It helped me brush my teeth. I was able to have a good meal. And I'm fine and I'm safe right now. These feelings suck and I don't feel comfortable. But I'm okay. And just really just leaning in to be uncomfortable. And as horrible as that sounds, it's like, the only way out is through. So really just leaning into it and just being gentle with yourself, you know, take yourself out if you're struggling with a bad body image day, like, that's the time where I sit with thoughts. But I also just do something fun for myself.
Katelyn:
Yeah, it's a delicate dance between being in the suck, and that healthy distraction when it's needed to not have to stay in the suck all day long, too. Beautiful. I love this conversation so much. I absolutely love the work that you're doing in the world. And you're just such a talented writer and speaker and I'm so grateful that we were able to spend this time together and you were able to share your truth. Thank you so much. Where can everybody find you and get plugged into your work and hang out with you- all the things?
Ayanna:
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. Um, right now I am on Instagram @you_deserve_recovery. It's where I run my blog and have mental health resources out there. And I share a little bit of my story, and mental health tips and tricks, and all the good stuff. Also on Twitter @worth_recovery. And currently have a book out, An Old Teen, for young people who are struggling with mental health anxiety or low self esteem that's on Amazon. Currently a Project HEAL ambassador, program manager- a wonderful nonprofit that I love. They're helping people who are struggling with eating disorders get access to life saving treatment, providing treatment grants, and other resources to help them overcome those barriers to treatment. So really involved with the mental community. I'm just super excited.
Katelyn:
I'm excited for you. I'm so fired up by all the work that you're doing. And we will be sure to link everything that you just mentioned in the show notes so that it's easy for everybody to access. Thank you so much for your time and your truth today. I really, really appreciate you.