Episode 95: Redefining Body Resilience With Jayne Mattingly
Episode 95: Redefining Body Resilience With Jayne Mattingly
In this episode we sit down with.... Jayne Mattingly
Jayne Mattingly is a Masters level Eating Disorder Recovery Coach and the owner of the Global Virtual Coaching Group Practice, Recovery Love and Care, LLC. Jayne identifies as fully recovered from a lifelong Eating Disorder. Jayne practices under the notion that full recovery is possible, and that with proper support, dedication, self-care and time, ALL individuals can find full recovery. Jayne works from a tailored and Health At Every Size (HAES) perspective, and believes that finding body acceptance is a key component when finding full recovery.
In this conversation we talk about:
Jayne’s personal body image story- from being a young dancer to being in a disabled body in adulthood
How to reach out for help with an eating disorder and how to have this conversation with your loved ones
Jayne's personal experience of surrendering to eating disorder recovery
Practical tools for body changes
Ableism and her perspective changes after becoming disabled
How to navigate the holidays and maintain boundaries for yourself
Connect with our guest...
Merch Shop: partial proceeds contribute to The AND Initiative Fund
OXB Necklace: partial proceeds contribute to The AND Initiative Fund
Resources we mention in this episode…
@byacre mobility aids
If you're interested in coaching or becoming a coach, Jayne does trainings & you can reach out at recoveryloveandcare@gmail.com
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Book your FREE Body Trust Breakthrough Consult
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TRANSCRIPTION
Episode 95: Redefining Body Resilience With Jayne Mattingly
Katelyn:
Jayne Mattingly. Hi, welcome to the show. I'm so excited you're here.
Jayne:
Hi, I'm so happy to be here. Thanks for having me. Yes.
Katelyn:
So much to talk about, like you and I just went over. Let's just dive in and get to your story. So the first question that we ask everybody on the show is your first body awareness moment. So what did that look like for you that moment where you realized I'm in a body? And this means something in the culture that I'm living in? What does it look like? And also, how did it impact your relationship with yourself, food, body image, all the things just speak your truth?
Jayne:
Wonderful. Yes, thank you. So the first thing that comes to mind, there's two things, um, but the first thing would be when I was 10 years old, and I went through puberty very young. You know, as an eating disorder professional, I now know that going through puberty at a young age, like early onset puberty is a pre determining factor or risk factor of having an eating disorder. And it makes sense, right, because when your body changes like that, it's you become body conscious very, very quickly. And when you're that young, no one else is changing. Everyone has little, little babies, little children all around you. And so that was like a traumatic thing for my body. And for me to make sense of it. My family was very supportive and lovely. My mom prepped me for all of that stuff, but my mind was just not ready for that. To compare myself to okay, why is my body changing? Why is my body bigger? What are these boobs? Why am I you know, bleeding all this stuff, and my friends aren't right, it became a point of shame. For me, I was the tall girl. And that is really like, I can put myself back in that fourth grade, little sweaty or sweaty, sweaty, 10 year old, that I just, I became so insecure in my body, and doubtful of my body. Um, and I would say, that was definitely the first moment that I became aware. And the sad thing is, it was shameful. It makes, you know, I look back on it now, and I just want to hug her. But it was a moment of shame, and it bled into my preteen and teen years and young adulthood. And, you know, my mind then also goes to, and we can talk about this, you know, a little bit later, but then, you know, like, I think we all have moments of change and rebirth as we grow older. And I really think that's happened to me in the last four years to where I became so aware, again, being in my body when I became chronically ill and disabled. I had to relearn who I am and what my body is. And even though it doesn't do what it usually used to do. So I think those are the two things I go to when you ask that question.
Katelyn:
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I'm so grateful that you shared your truth around this, but also educated us as well, too, that the predisposition for disorders is so strong for early onset of puberty. What an interesting fact, it makes so much sense. And you have your own lived experience to really bring that to life as well, too. So, going through this, and I do also want to learn more about this second part of your story as well. So kind of going back to the first, how did that impact your relationship with food and your body? I know from what you've shared publicly in your story, that you've struggled with an eating disorder. How did that correlate with the shame that you were experiencing?
Jayne:
You know, it's interesting, because I was such a happy, happy, happy child. Um, you know, family used to say things like, if I were to come back or something, I wish I could come back as little Janie, you know, um, and then, like a light switch. And I became so anxious or, or maybe it was that I was happy and anxious. But my anxiety really took over when my body started to change. And I think the way in which I regulated that anxiety was hyper focusing on my body. I think it was focusing on what my body did was a food, focusing on how my body felt after I ate like, in a very unhealthy way. Again, like hyper focusing on those things, emptying the food, you know, like just very conscious of what my body was doing and how it looked and how it felt, um, you know, again, like, I was tall, I was a tall girl. That was something that was like a complex almost that I got, taking up less space was just like, the biggest goal I had. Little did I know that is the goal I had, but it was, um, and it just manifested into I became a dancer because I loved it. And I was good at it. And it manifested into this subjective world of what my body could do, and what it looks like. And I started to micromanage my food, micromanage how my food digested, how my body moved, pushed it so hard. And the thing that is so sad and so common, so so common, is no one knew. Honestly, I didn't even know that I had an eating disorder, I didn't, I truly thought I was normal, I thought it was normal to not eat, or eat so little, and be so hyper focused on what I ate and the choices I could have in my body. Because I looked, quote, unquote, normal. And this does happen. Very often, I would say like, 90% of the time, especially with the clients, I see. Most people are like kind of given this hall pass, whether there's intention or not behind it, where it's like, you seem fine, you look fine. But you're really like you're dying inside. And it affects everything. It affects your social health, your emotional health, mental, physical. And for me that just again, it was like hyper focusing on my food, my intake restriction. And, you know, high school, I would say, it was just I thought again, I was just normal. And then in college, it became, I guess, a little bit more abnormal in my eyes, even though looking at it all. Now it was all an eating disorder.
Katelyn:
How did you know? How did you get to that point where you realized that it was an eating disorder? Did someone bring it up to you? Or did you do some research on your own?
Jayne:
You know what, I love that question. And it makes me think of something this is really common as well. I know you had Julia,fit fat and all that in this podcast. And we've talked about this before that we were both this way. I was also incredibly fascinated with eating disorders in high school and college. Like I wrote papers on it. Which is so like, now as a, as a therapist, I'm like, looking back at that I'm like, okay, my subconscious knew something like, wow, I was so interested in this, but I think I wanted to be so interested in it to almost like, prove that I was okay, on some level. Because I didn't necessarily fall into this textbook version of eating disorders that we learned in eighth grade, you know, like, you know, anorexia or bulimia and it looks like this. And so it was interesting because I knew so much about eating disorders. And then I was 22. And I moved out to Jackson, Wyoming, so it was a huge risk that I took to be close to my brand new boyfriend at the time, who's now my husband. It was like the biggest risk I'd ever taken. I graduated college and I moved out to Jackson, it was just for quote, unquote, this summer, and it turned into four years. Um, but I was really unwell. And poor Shawn at the time, you know, was not emotionally intelligent, necessarily. He didn't have the resources to understand what was happening. This was actually even in like our wedding ceremony. Like, we joke like, I would cry, and he'd be like, stop crying. And I would just then cry even harder. Like he really didn't understand. And then he did hear me purging my food after dinner, and I denied it. And he said, Okay, well, we're going to talk about it. You have to get help. And I recovered for him. And then after I went and got help and got a therapist, a dietitian, and had doctor's support all outpatient in Jackson, I then recovered for myself. But I first had to recover for him because I didn't really understand what was happening. And I always tell people, I tell my clients now, like recover for a doorknob, if you have to, you know, like, do whatever you need to do, just to get better. And it was John, it was because he said, you know, to me, I can't, we can't make this work. If you don't love yourself, if you can't, if you can't take care of yourself, and I was falling apart at the seams.
Katelyn:
What were some of the signs that you were noticing for yourself? Or that he was noticing? Besides the mood swings that you just mentioned, the really heightened emotions, what were some of the other signals that something was wrong?
Jayne:
Well, definitely the purging that wasn't normal. You know, that is, I think, some of the most harmful behaviors that you can use. I was also hyper fixated on how food was made, making my food, controlling situations. And it's funny, because, you know, I think going through recovery from an eating disorder makes you incredibly resilient. But being in an eating disorder, is proof that there's no resilience at all. And it's funny, because people that do have eating disorders usually seem that they have it all together. But it's this facade, because the second emotions come, we numb them with, with, with anything, we can use, restriction exercise, whatever it is. And that was a big thing that I started to pick up on is that I really wasn't emotionally resilient. Um, you know, I was pushing this beach ball under the water, and it kept popping up even harder, the harder I pushed, was falling apart. I always tell my clients like, you have to put recovery first. And things get harder before they get better or easier. And let me tell you, I was such a hard worker, I have always been very type A and I was fired from my job because I was just not doing well, like, my brain wasn't working. Like, I remember, I was working at HR at the Four Seasons in Jackson, I don't think I've ever talked about this publicly. Um, and I was, you know, in my early, early, early 20s, and very sensitive, wanting to do my best. And I remember, like,, they would keep having meetings with me saying, like, you've got to do this, this and this, we're not seeing this. And I couldn't do it. Like, I couldn't copy both sides of the paper on the copy machine. Like I couldn't remember to do it. Because my body was just going off of reserves that it didn't have. That was one of the biggest red flags. I think that I wasn't able to balance any of it anymore. I had to put recovery first.
Katelyn:
I'm curious if you experienced purging before you got to Wyoming. Was that a symptom that you had struggled with before?
Jayne:
It was. I used and I abused laxatives when I was in high school. Um, you know, with eating disorder, what I know about it now is digestive issues. It's kind of like the chicken or the egg type of thing. It's like, yeah, one of the most confusing parts of eating disorders. Yes, it's really mind boggling, because it's like did the delayed like motility and constipation cause me to want to hyper focus on these things? Or did you know me hyper focusing on these things caused the constipation, right? Yes. Um, so I did that I over exercised a lot. I would dance dance, dance, and didn't eat enough. And the purging, the throwing up started in college. And it was again, I always talk about this like Hall Pass that is always given to us in our recovery journeys, our eating disorder journeys, I guess I should say, where it's not intentionally given to us, but what a doctor kind of oversees something or a friend says, oh, that's normal. It gives the eating disorder, this power. And again, intent is not there. It's lack of resources or understanding. Yeah, but, um, I remember my roommate was like, I went and I told her, I threw up and she was like, oh, that's fine. I do that. And from then on I truly convinced myself that like, I didn't have a problem.
Katelyn:
Jayne, this is so interesting. There are so many things in your story that are so parallel to mine. Yes, definitely. I was so interested in eating disorders when I was a kid, and I struggled with some version of eating disorder from the time I was in sixth grade up until my, you know, late 20s. And my predominant eating disorder was bulimia and I never identified as bulimic. Because of the, the lack of, I guess, self awareness and education and as well as how we believe we are in a pretty, quote unquote, average size body, you know, there was never really any concern. Yeah, from a physical standpoint on the outside. Yeah, I really hear that. And one of the things that is resonating the most in your story than I can also attest to for myself is just this intense urge to suppress emotions without even realizing it. But you mentioned at the beginning of your story, being a kid with all of these feelings, and anxiety being the predominant emotion. And that's, I mean, we feel our feelings and our bodies. They're dramatic. And so the discomfort with just feeling that emotion. What was that like within your environment growing up? How were emotions talked about or not talked about? Or what was kind of the story with emotions in your home environment or dance, even school?
Jayne:
I love that question. By the way, thank you for sharing your story, too. And I think a lot of people resonate with that, where it's like this lack of self awareness. Thank you for sharing that. But what's interesting is I was always a very sensitive soul. And I was always called an old soul. Yeah, I think that's true to this day. Wow. Yeah. I remember like rolling my eyes as a little girl when I was like, what the hell does that even mean? I remember dancing like you're weird. Yes.
Katelyn:
Oh my God. Are we the same person? I remember being like, 11 years old, and somebody saying you're like an old soul and feeling so weird and just like awkward about it?
Jayne:
Yes. And like, yeah, it is the weirdest thing to tell a child. Um, but it's also accurate and yes, and yes, I still am very much, um, you know, but I was very sensitive. And I had a really healthy family situation, we talked about all of our emotions, we started going to therapy at a really young age. Obviously, everyone's family has their faults, but like, it was such a healthy upbringing with that. Most of my emotional attachment styles came from childhood friends. Also, I had a friend that was really toxic, really, really toxic. And, I mean, it was to the point where we met, you know, in preschool, and that I'd come home crying. But I would keep coming back. And it was a toxic, emotionally abusive relationship that I partook in and also was like a victim of in some ways. I was always the one like, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. Are you mad at me? And it was because I was in this relationship that was just so manipulative. And it was from the age of like three to 18. And so much of it was so good. And so much of it was so bad. And I know that that really affected my attachment style, and my emotional resilience and the way I self preserved and chose to regulate my nervous system. That was a big thing for me. I mean, people would always use the word sensitive as like a weapon. Yeah. And then I cry. Which is like, the one thing you don't want to do when someone calls you sensitive. Um, so I just always felt vulnerable and fragile. And to be honest, like my mom would always say, like, I think you'll find your time once you're out of school. And she was right. Like, I didn't even really like college. Like I did, but like I did it. When I went out to Jackson, Wyoming, my mom was like, go. For instance it was my senior spring break and Shawn, I met him in Italy when I was studying abroad. And he was out in Jackson, Wyoming. And we were talking and I was like, should I go out there for you know, he wants me to come out. And she's like, go, like, do it. And I remember being like, wait, what? And she was like, take the risk, like, go. And it was something I just never did like, take those risks. I was very timid and coy in those things, and I wanted to have fun, but to like an extent.
Katelyn:
That is so interesting, Jayne, and especially what you mentioned about the toxic friendship. Do you see this pattern play out in any other areas of your life? Like this toxic? Yeah, toxic relationship? Or perhaps some of these people-pleasing tendencies?
Jayne:
Yes, I mean, I think once you are in those situations, you become vulnerable to them. Sometimes like you get into patterns and cycles. I never really had it with romantic relationships. But with friends I did. Um, and it really took a lot. I mean, like in work relationships, where I kind of give my all to that one person or someone and they make me feel special? And then it becomes like, it would just be manipulative. Yeah. Um, and so honestly, like it probably in the last like, six years, I've really, really done so much work on that.
Katelyn:
How so? What do you feel like I've been some of the biggest shifts for you in that area of your honor. Jayne:
Yeah. Um, I think it needed, like, a lot of it needed to happen. I think boundaries, my own personal boundaries, and being okay with people being upset, was a big thing for me. knowing my truth and my worth, and my value as a person, even if maybe someone else didn't. And really seeing how relationships, you know, don't have to be all or nothing. We can have friends from the first season, friends of a lifetime, friends of the heart, friends of the road, and friends for a reason, you know, different things like that. So, I think that kind of work. I mean, going to therapy and being really self aware of how energy energetically drained I am after being with someone that has really changed my perspective on things. Yeah.
Katelyn:
Yeah, it's so incredible how you just described all of that, because just hearing and witnessing you say all that I see so many patterns and parallels to eating disorder behavior. Yeah. And isn't it so interesting? It is a relationship, how you are in relationship with your friends, with your family, with your house, with your money, with your food, with your body, it's really all relationships and how is you know, your own self-worth, self trust, self awareness in all of these relationships. So, it's so interesting when you start to do this work, and it sounds like it's incredibly true for you because it does impact so many other areas of your life when you just start to work on even one of these areas.
Jayne:
So much so and you're so right. I mean, I'll talk about this with clients to where it's like your relationship with food is usually synonymous with your relationship with money, people and or your body, you know, and it's very true for me, that's for sure.
Katelyn:
Yeah, it's very true for me as well as for most people who are kind of going through this, this space. So before we talk more about your recovery, and this next chapter of your body and the body you're in today and all these things, I want to go back to one thing that you said that I'm particularly curious about, and I think a lot of people in this community will be too, but just some of the behaviors that do go more under the radar, you mentioned that probably 90%, I think you said the client that you see wouldn't really diagnose themselves with an eating disorder. And so what is that point for somebody to reach out, or somebody to be aware of when it is reaching a point where it's on the verge of a full blown eating disorder? In the space of diet culture, this is where I personally have so much frustration with this question just professionally, because there's just so much overlap. So how do you navigate that?
Jayne:
Yeah, what a good question. And it's, it's tough, um, but it's also not. In that, like, our relationship with food and body should not be hard. Um, and it is because of the culture we live in. So it is hard. I don't think it's easy for anyone, anyone at all. Like, I don't think having a relationship with your body and having a relationship with food is is easy for someone's entire lifetime, I think someone at some point is going to have some type of toxic relationship with their body or food, because of the culture we live in, because I know a lot of the missing signs is like when it becomes a hyper focus, obsessive compulsive focus or comfort. That is when it becomes a problem, it's when all of your pillars of health are being affected. Or you're only focusing on one pillar of health, you know, like, if it's only your physical body, it's only your nutritional body. Even like, you know, just hyper focusing on exercise, how much you're putting in your body or in the back of labels, you know, what's going out of your body focusing on you know, cleansing your body, things like that, like, if it starts to bleed into your life, it's not normal. Um, and those are the big things that went on. Notice for me, you know, is like, it's not normal to count your almonds, it's not normal to have, you know, peanut butter and jelly on a wafer cracker. It's not normal to skip breakfast, it's not normal to have coffee for breakfast, it's not normal to exercise to the point of, you know, wanting to pass out. It's, you know, not normal to have a bunch of digestive issues at such a young age and be so hyper focused on that. You know, it's also not normal to spend so much time in the mirror or have such a terrible, terrible self talk and dialogue with your body, or fear of your body changing. And so having, I think, an understanding of that, and getting someones help as soon as possible. Early intervention is like the best thing you can do. The best thing you can do for someone. I think parents and friends are usually scared of doing that, because it's kind of saying that's almost like solidifying there's a problem. And it's like no, like the earlier intervention, the more chance they have of living, sustained recovery.
Katelyn:
So in your experience, you would advise that intervention from either friends or family just as soon as possible? What’s the best way to do that? Because I'm sure a lot of people are going to hear this also and be like, I know, somebody that I could have a conversation like this with, but I want to make sure that it's not over taxing on my nervous system or place of love and support. So how do you set the container to have that type of intervention? And is there another word for it? Perhaps because I feel like that's such a stigmatized word, as well, too, unfortunately.
Jayne:
I know it really is. I mean it's a knowing, it's a realization, um, you know, but I mean the word intervention is used even clinically, very much for eating disorders, because you become a slave to it and I hate using that word. But it feels that you have no other choice than to obey all the things that the eating disorder’s saying, and you choose that over everything else. So to intervene is like the best thing you can do. And that might be sitting down and having a conversation, saying, I'm noticing these things, and I'm really worried. I'm really concerned and worried. And I know that maybe you don't want to hear this. But I hope you know that this comes from love or that maybe one day, you know, this comes from love. But I want to get you help and I want to help. Would you, you know, be interested in calling some of these therapists or looking at some of these treatment centers. And that's usually for someone you know, who's an adult. If it's a child. I would say go see a therapist, like as soon as possible. Again, usually parents are really scared to do that. But if they think and usually say like, you think there's a problem, there is a big problem, because eating disorders thrive in secrecy. So if you're noticing something that usually means something much worse is happening underneath the surface.
Katelyn:
Yeah, eating disorders, love secrecy. I think Julia and I were talking about that. And in her episode, it is just such a disordered way to have these really primal needs met. And so yeah, I think it's brilliant. Everything that you just shared from an awareness standpoint, whether you're going through it, or someone else is going through it as well, too. Just having that conversation and how important that is. When you went through your own intervention with it sounds like your boyfriend? What was the next step with that? You said therapy meeting with a dietitian. But did you go through a period where you were resistant to even taking that next step?
Jayne:
Yes, like I was very mad. Actually I left that night, I left his house and stormed off, um, he brought it up again, like the next day. And again he was like, you know, I need you to promise you're gonna make a call. And so I remember, I went to the community counseling center, but I also called my mom, and was like, hey, like, I think I want to start seeing a therapist again for depression and anxiety. And I kind of just like, really thought that was my problem. Even though Shawn was like, hey, like, this is not normal. I was like, well, this isn't an eating disorder. And so she was an out of state therapist that was really coaching me. And I had an in-state therapist, and then a dietitian. So I had like a coach, therapists, and dietitian and a psychiatrist and doctors. I was seeing my team for about four months. And we went on a trip to San Diego, actually. And I remember sitting at a restaurant on the beach, and I like looked at Shawn and I was like, I want to tell you something. And he's like, okay, and I was like, I have an eating disorder. And he's like, yeah. I was like, what? And he was like, well yeah but it was the first time I'd ever really proclaimed it. Um, and then, you know, things got really hard, like things got worse because I finally admitted it to myself. So I held on even harder. And then I pushed through and things got a lot better. But it was messy. Messy, messy. Messy.
Katelyn:
Yeah. What was the messiest part for you? What were some of the biggest parts of the resistance or just changes that you were seeing or did not want to see in your own recovery?
Jayne:
Feeling the feelings was the hardest part. I think. not numbing the feelings
Katelyn:
God that is classically just yes. Like, that is where the mess and the transformation is its feelings.
Jayne:
Yes, it was. It was so hard. I mean, my body changing was also incredibly hard. Um, and honestly, feeling the feelings that was definitely the hardest part.
Katelyn:
How did you navigate both of those? What do you feel like really stood out for you?
Jayne:
Um, thank God I had a team, Shawn would come to sessions with me, which was really helpful. But it got to a point where I really wasn't handling it. I was like a monster like it just like took over at one point. And I just like really was having a hard time. And again, I wasn't putting recovery first. And I finally surrendered to recovery. But before that, it was really, really messy. And then finally, once I was able to surrender, it was me talking about it was me opening up about it not being ashamed, not keeping a secret, telling my family, calling my friends. Not being ashamed of my story. That's when I really was able to surrender.
Katelyn:
It is impossible for shame to exist in vulnerability. That's something that I've learned from Brene Brown's research, and it's so powerful when we speak our truth, that’s one of the reasons why I created this podcast because it's so important to be able to share our truth and our stories, unapologetically. And just watch that shame die. It doesn't deserve to exist. Yeah.
Jayne:
I love that. I love Brene Brown, gosh.
Katelyn:
Me too. We're best friends. in another life. So from a physical standpoint, I know, this is something that so many people in this community are curious of just with recovery and healing in general, when your body does change, because that is a big piece of the puzzle for so many people in this experience. And one of the reasons why so many people avoid doing the work. And you know, your body is meant to change. Your body changes throughout all different times of life. And so what did that mean for you? And what were some of the, what were some of the tools that you used on your own separate from in treatment on those really tough body image days?
Jayne:
Yeah, well, the craziest part of this is it really like blends into where I am now. And that I what, honestly, what really helped me in my recovery is celebrating what my body could do moving. I was so active, and I loved getting strong, and seeing that I needed to eat and feel my body and that it was okay that my body changed. And I wasn't going to be my 13, 16 year old self. That was a big piece for me. And the thing that's crazy is like, then about three and a half years ago, my body stopped doing. And I became disabled. And I was fully recovered at this point. But it was like, Wait a minute. Here I am like preaching and knowing, oh, like love your body, you know for what it can do. And here I am being like, but what if it stops, then what? And now I'm learning and I have learned over the years that my body is just a vessel. That's all it is just a vessel. let me live my life out to live my core values out to be human and flawed. And my body just lets me do that. Um, but in my recovery, it really was like being able to move and celebrate my body.
Katelyn:
Can I ask a question around that?
Jayne:
Yeah.
Katelyn:
Because I also know in your story, and I think this is true for so many people who struggle with eating disorders, that movement is also one of the pieces of the disorder. How did you get to that place where it was from a neutral, joyful, celebratory part of your life versus a punishment or any of these?
Jayne:
Yeah, well, At first, um, I had to take it away. I felt all the feelings girl. Yes. Yes, yes. It's very important in the recovery process. Yeah, I was like a kid. When you can escape through movement, you're like, yes, you're feeling them. Mm hmm. And then it was being in my body like breathing, breath work. meditation, mindfulness, like truly being grounded in my body. I got really into yoga and more mindful movement that had motivation behind it of just like, wow, this makes my heart happy. This makes my mind happy. Not about the calories, not about the sweating. And then kind of seeing what my body could do in regards to like, where it could take me. So in Jackson, there's crazy mountains and like, we would hike to these beautiful peaks. And it'd be like, wow, like, my body's taking me to these places. That's pretty freakin cool. Um, and celebrating that, and it not being punishment, in that, like, I would need to be feeling my body more during that, and eating more. And being okay with emotional eating, too. But having a balance there, you know, taking the shoulds out of it, you know, and understanding my intentions and motivation for movement was a big thing then too.
Katelyn:
I love both of those words, intention and motivation. I think, for myself, that was everything. Recovery, just how the intentions shifted, and the motivation for a lot of the same reasons that you described, you know, it really just values, life experiences, connection, just being in this life with your body as a vessel versus a spectacle, you know?
Jayne:
Yes, absolutely. You know, like, I think there was just there was a piece of me that was like, wow, this is so cool like, I was just so into, like, being adventurous with my body like being like swimming. And you know, when we moved to Charleston, then like, paddleboard and activities and things I could do, like that was a big, that was a big piece for me. Not hiding my body, you know, getting bigger with it. You got that space? Yeah, taking up the space. Mm hmm. So I think those were the intentions, those are the motivations behind it. I'm watching myself talk in those moments too. But then again, again, again, like it, it all kind of stopped once my body stopped. And so now, like, my philosophy is quite different in regards to how I approach recovery with clients, and I'm much more aware of how ableist that saying is love your body for what it can do. And I think it still applies, but also it's stiffer.
Katelyn:
Yeah, well, I hear that and I really understand that. And it's also if your body is breathing, yes, you know, your body is doing something your body releasing something, you know, you have a heartbeat. However, whatever ability you have or don't have, that's enough for you to celebrate. Absolutely. And I get it like I am speaking from a place of being an enabled body. I recognize that privilege. And so I understand that might not sit well with people, me saying that in my own lived experience. So I'm curious about yours. Can you share the details of how you came into a disabled body and your chronic illness and just what that chapter of your story looks like?
Jayne:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Um three and a half, four years ago I found myself in the ER, with terrible, terrible, terrible pain. And it was really bad neck and head pain. I went and they kept dismissing me and sending me home saying I was fine. And I was having all these crazy symptoms, rashes, I was getting, like blurred out vision. Just problems and I was, you know, being referred to different doctors. And I finally ended up in the ER one last time, pretty much like I was almost paralyzed from the waist up, I could not move and I started losing my sight and the pain was just excruciating. And I was diagnosed with intracranial hypertension, also known as pseudotumor cerebri. It's basically where your cerebral spinal fluid is just so the pressure is so high that you're like it's sweat your brain. It's like swelling, and it swells your optic nerves and your brain. It's incredibly painful. And it can make you go blind. And so it was causing me to go blind. And I was eligible for a specific type of brain surgery. So I got that. And I thought then my journey was over. But it wasn't it was just starting. I went to Mayo Clinic a couple times up in Rochester and then in Florida, and I was diagnosed with a genetic disorder called Ehlers Danlos Syndrome. It's a connective tissue disorder. It's a rare disorder. And it makes a lot of sense because I was born with it, but little did I know I had it. And my Intracranial Hypertension actually pushed it out because of the stress it caused on my body. And you know, you kind of put all the puzzle pieces together like I was always dislocating things and I had lots of issues growing up health wise that we just kind of were like, oh, whatever, you know.
Katelyn:
What were some of the other things?
Jayne:
Yeah, lots of dislocations. A ton of infections. A lot of head pain and gum, Ihad receding gums I'd gotten graphs at like a really young age. Really fragile, doughy, velvety skin. Oh, glass, glassy eyes. Very, very bendy. I was just super hyper mobile.
Katelyn:
Which is so interesting, because I'm just observing your story. This could easily, all the things that you're saying, it could be chalked up to you were a dancer or it was your family genetic or it was some result of your eating disorder, your bulimia like a lot of snack, Lee, a lot of the things that you're saying kind of overlap with a lot of the other areas of your life it sounds like.
Jayne:
Yes, it is such a complex disorder. It's such a complex disease. So it's often like not found because it's so rare and complex. And often dancers like, like there are some dancers that have Ehlers Danlos and don't know it because they're so bendy. They're so good at it. But, you know, there's a big part of me that thinks if I knew I had Ehlers Danlos when I was younger, my eating disorder would have been less severe. I think I would have understood my body a lot more. Yeah. And so then once I was diagnosed with that things really progressed quickly. I was diagnosed with a lot of neurological issues and neurological diseases from Ehlers Danlos. craniocervical instability was one of them, which is the instability of your skull to your spine, it's really dangerous to cause seizures, all these things I was having very terrible symptoms. And so since then, I've had now Gosh, nine neuro slash brain surgeries. And fully fused from the skull to C seven cannot move my head or neck. I've had multiple spinal and spinal cord surgeries. I have some spinal cord injuries as well from it. And yeah, it's majorly affected my mobility, my motor skills, my ability to move and stamina I use. I also have from my Ehlers Danlos Syndrome, I have immune disease from it. And so again, it causes like all these comorbidities because it is so complex and you have connective tissues all over your body so it affects your heart, your organs, your immune system, all of that, right but it's really affected my neurological system the most. And so it's been a rough ride. Now I have my mobility service dog. But my body again it's like it's stopped doing. And I very recently like kind of embraced in the past like two years, the fact that I am disabled. And it brought so much freedom to finally claim that rather than, like, Oh, I'll get better, I'll get better, I'll get better like, this is a progressive illness. And to finally, like, allow my body to just be without micromanaging it. Again, being even fully recovered from my eating disorder, it's like, here's just another obstacle we go through in our relationships with our bodies. And it has been a hard one to say, and there will be more surgeries in the future. I mean it's been a rough ride, but I have so much respect for my body more, more so than ever, because of what it's gone through. And, yeah, it's, it's been a ride.
Katelyn:
So interesting, just how your story has unfolded. Jayne, you know, can you imagine going through this chapter without being recovered, or without having the tools for the emotional regulation and access you do now, and being able to just have this completely new relationship with yourself and your body and your relationships around God just having tools in place to navigate this part of your life right now? It's pretty incredible.
Jayne:
Thank you. Yeah, I do think that I would be a totally different story, I don't think I would have gotten through all of this, if it wasn't for my recovery. I just don't, you know, like, now I've, I've turned my problem into my purpose in a lot of ways, you know, I do a lot of advocacy for disability and illness. And, you know, I just started the End Initiative, which is allowing yourself to live within and outside of labels. Living and being fat and being sick and being disabled. And, and, you know, for me being disabled, and CEO being sick and thriving, the way I was able to live was by embracing that label, and getting my mobility aid and getting my service dog and allowing myself to surrender. And that made my life bigger. I wasn't at home all the time, then I was able to get out, I was able, I wasn't fighting it anymore. And it's so interesting, because when, as an able bodied person in the past, I always thought, you know, you're bound to mobility aids, you know, that's such an ableist thing to think, but that's what I thought. Um, and so I really thought for so long, like, if I surrender to being disabled, that's giving up that's giving in, but no, it made my life so big. I mean, like, so big, I can't even describe it, because my life got real fucking small, when I got sick, got real small. And I'm just so grateful that I was able to find my hand and live and lean into it. And I don't think I would have been able to do that if it wasn't for my recovery.
Katelyn:
Yeah, it's, it is remarkable. And just so powerful. You sharing all of this and your truth with all of this, and how you are experiencing this, and the advocacy that you're that you're doing now. And the space that you're creating for others to heal. It really is so inspiring. And you Yes, absolutely. In terms of the days that you have now that are not so great, because you're human, and I'm sure they come up. How do you take care of yourself on those days? And if you are open to sharing, what are some of the triggers that you find now for just a shitty day, whether it's around your body and where it is now or health just ships? Any of the things like what are the triggers? And what are the tools that you use now, this far along in your journey?
Jayne:
Yeah, great question. And you're right, we all have triggers all the time, right? We live in a dysfunctional disordered society. I think one of the things that's been so freeing for me is understanding that I can't expect the world to change, I can try with my advocacy, but I can’t. I can change, I can change how I view things or treat myself, or how I distance myself from things or set boundaries. A big thing for me with triggers has been my body changing in the last three and a half years, it's changed a lot drastically, I've gained a lot of weight, my body has gotten bigger. And that's been really hard. Because I can't move, I miss it. Just today, you know, one of my best friends here and her adorable child slept over last night. And we had a wonderful little Christmas hanging. And they left this morning and we used to live so close. And now we live a little bit further because we just moved. And I was like, I really miss driving. Like I just I want to get in there, I want to get in a car and go, I want to be able to ride my bike, I want to be able to do all the things and that can be a trick or it can it's like, I get hard on myself, I get down on myself and one of the best things I can do is feel my feelings allow space for my feelings. Slow down. I'm a workaholic, I'm into something I'm constantly working on. And work is something I love. And it's hard because my work has such purpose and passion as someone who works with eating disorders and body image and advocacy. So it's like a good thing and, and not so great thing. So really setting boundaries with my work and resting, naps and getting outside is a huge thing for me and self care. You know, like, really celebrating what my body is doing for me even when it's hurting is something I really work on. It's something I call perceived body betrayal. You know, like, we all experienced it, especially if you have chronic illness or disability. We perceive our bodies betraying us, but really, it's doing everything it possibly can to keep us alive. And so it deserves kindness and compassion. And I'm always always trying to lean into that, no matter how hard it gets. Giving myself ease and leaning into compassion, I think is one of the biggest things I've been working on.
Katelyn:
So not easy either. So hard. We're just not really taught how to do that in this culture. And so really is this seemingly easy skill, self compassion, but it bumps up against all kinds of things when the skill is being built. So those are all amazing tools that you just shared. And it's just so cool to watch you actually walking your talk and living in your truth and everything that you're sharing. Before we wrap today, I mean, we'll probably have to have you back on because, yes, like a million other things that I want to ask you and ways that we could take this conversation. But in light of the season that we're in right now and the halls, and all of the things, obviously no secrets here, food and body, hot topic during this time. There's a lot of triggers. There's a lot of discomfort. There's a lot of storytelling and our minds and just sticky situations that we find ourselves in. So I must ask more from a client's perspective, not necessarily your own journey. But how do you support clients in navigating this time of year where these types of conditions are a little bit more sensitive?
Jayne:
Yeah. Oh my gosh. I mean, the holidays are so hard for everyone. Right? It brings, I mean, we love the holidays, and then it's also very stressful. Especially during these times when we haven't seen people in a while. And one of the biggest things I tell clients is prepare and manage your expectations. That's a big thing, you know, really manage your expectations. And it might not be the most wonderful time of the year. And it might be hard, it might be difficult and that's okay. And that's normal and having your support. So that might be a self care kit. Like you know, thinking about five senses. So that might be, you know, some essential oils that you bring or, you know, something like a body brush to ground you or like a wonderful podcast or playlist or, you know, something that is just really simple and grounds you allot something to tune into your feelings like a journal or a FaceTime session with a friend. But really having like, set aside time to take care of yourself, whatever that looks like, and you don't have to partake in everything, you know, like a family's having happy hour, you don't have to partake in that if you don't want to go upstairs, take some time for yourself. Julia and I always talk about how our families are probably like, you know, they're incredibly respectful of it, but they're probably like, why is she upstairs? You know, like, and it's sometimes you just have to like, take some time for yourself, go outside, go for a walk, read a book, you know, do what you need to do to take care of you, you do not have to say yes to everything and really managing your expectations. I'm a huge animal person. And I'm very lucky and privileged to have my mobility service doc. So he'll be there with everything, he's also trained with, like PTSD and trauma. So like, he is so wonderful with assessing my needs. But if there's something fluffy, like, go up and hug it. But honestly, like, in addition to all of those tips, your self talk is one of the most important things. And remembering that like this is one day, it's one moment it will pass the feelings will pass, the fullness will pass. And you can do this thank you will get through this. It will not hurt you. You are safe. Um, that's probably the biggest advice I'd give. Sometimes, like some of the more like hokey advice I give people is like, yeah, it people love to talk about themselves. So if someone brings up something of the holidays, like if Uncle Joe brings up something to the holidays and asks about your weight or asks incredibly invasive, intrusive, inappropriate question you can just say like, Oh, I heard you got a dog or Oh, tell me about your trip to Hawaii or man. Politics, right? Yes. Talk about whatever people like to talk about themselves?
Katelyn:
Um, yeah a quick subject change is like a really powerful secret weapon, or I also like the exit strategy to where it's just like, I gotta go to the bathroom real quick.
Jayne:
Yes, exactly. Um, you know, really protecting your energy. And managing those expectations, I think is a big one, you know, like, Aunt Sue and Uncle Joe might not understand that you don't want to talk about these things. And that might mean that you just have to walk out of the room. Yeah. It's a really tough time, though. It's a tough time of the year. It's also a beautiful time of the year. And so I do think it's about really being kind to yourself and managing those expectations. You do not have to partake in everything. You know, I think that's something that I struggled with too, is like, I thought I had to partake in everything and really had to do all the traditions and keep it perfect. But I drove myself nuts doing that.
Katelyn:
Yeah, or some thing that I fell into personally, or and see with clients today also is, well, I'm not going to do anything if I don't get to do them the way that I really want to do them. So it's really getting into that and.
Jayne:
Yeah, it's not all or nothing. You know, like it can there's so much gray. And there's so much in between, and that's okay. Yeah, I think it can be a really tough time. But remembering that, again, our bodies are vessels to experience these beautiful connections that we have with people and if the connections aren't beautiful, then we can find something that's beautiful. Whether that's, you know, hugging our pets, or, I don't know, listening to a podcast you know, using your self care kit, finding ways to ground yourself and regulate the nervous system.
Katelyn:
Oh, well, Jayne, thank you so much. This was such a powerful conversation. Your story is so deeply inspiring. The work that you're doing is incredible. And I know people want to connect with you just from this conversation. So where can they find you? Fall in love with you and also work with you?
Jayne:
Yes, thank you so much for having me. recoveryloveandcare all spelled out on Instagram. My website is recoveryloveandcare.com. If you want to, if you're interested in coaching or becoming a coach, I do trainings for that as well. And you can reach out to me at recoveryloveandcare@gmail.com. We started the And Initiative and that's all about basically, it's a charitable gifting service for allowing people to live there life. We're giving away a rollator right now through byacre which is an amazing, amazing company that makes beautiful, sexy rollators,we're doing all that good stuff over the holidays. And I'm just so honored to be on here. And yeah, thank you for having such a wonderful conversation.
Katelyn:
Thank you. I will link everything in the show notes too. So that will keep it super easy. And you'll have to come back for round two like we were just locked out. So please, this is not goodbye. This is just so long. I hope you have a really amazing start to your new year and thank you so much, truly, Happy New Year.