Episode 84: Healing Binge Eating With Jenna Free
Episode 84: Healing Binge Eating With Jenna Free
In this episode we sit down with....Jenna Free.
Jenna Free is an Intuitive Eating Counselor and soon to be therapist that specializes in healing disordered eating and body image. Along side Lauren McAulay they are the cofounders of the Body Love Society and The UnDiet Collective, their intuitive eating support app.
In this conversation we talk about:
Jenna’s personal body image story- breaking up with the label of the healthy eater
Her relationship with food and body throughout her modeling journey
Jenna’s experiences of binge eating and how she ended the cycle
Practical tools for silencing the inner critic
Navigating social media from a mental health perspective
Connect with our guest...
Resources we mention in this episode…
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TRANSCRIPTION
Episode 84: Healing Binge Eating With Jenna Free
Katelyn:
Jenna Free Hi, welcome. So happy you're here- this has been a, like a moment in the making like I was just telling you before we hit record, I have been dying to get you on the show since we started the show. You're from The Body Love Society, I’ve followed that account for many, many years now and am just obsessed with the content that you're putting into the world around intuitive eating and anti-diet and Health At Every Size- all of the things that we love here in this community. So, thank you for showing up and spending some time with us today.
Jenna:
Thank you so much.
Katelyn:
Let's kick it off with your first body awareness moment. So, we asked this question to everybody that comes on the show- that moment that you realized that you're in a body, and that means something in the world that you're living in. What did that look like for you, and also how did that shape your relationship with your body and or food moving forward?
Jenna (body image story):
Hmm, I think I would say mine was like in three different parts. So, the first part was when I probably like 12 1314, kind of hitting that puberty age. So, I gained some weight. And I was kind of what people consider chubby. And I remember thinking like, like, like squishing my stomach, like, Oh, just my stomach was flat, then I would look the way like, I would look so much better. But that was a fleeting thought, like, I'm just clicking the mirror think that and it wouldn't really affect what I did, it wouldn't affect what I eat, it wouldn't affect anything other than that moment of Oh, I wish it was like that suddenly had years of kind of just being in that space of realizing, oh, there's thinner people than me. And that's what people think is good. But whatever this is my body. So then I was just going on with my life. And then kind of the second part was when I was 16. And it was a very like, like momentary decisions, I woke up one day and I was like, Oh, I'm going to, like see if I can lose some weight. And so, I just started exercising and just considering what I was eating, like it wasn't anything major from the start, but just kind of starting to think about it a bit more. And then the third part was when I did lose weight, and the reaction from the outside world, validated Oh, you are more worthwhile now. You are worthy of romantic relationships. Now, you are worthy of attention and praise. And so that was kind of the real confirmation that like, yes, weight loss is good, then this is a value. And without that, if you go back, then you won't be noticed anymore appraised anymore, or as valuable anymore. So that was kind of the most damaging moment, even though on the outward, or on the outside that kind of problem seemed like the moment of Oh, you won, you did it. You succeeded in getting all this praise, what a positive thing. But that was actually probably the most harmful moment of all of them.
Katelyn:
How old were you? Because I know you mentioned your second moment was when you were around 16.
Jenna:
Well, I mean, the weight loss happened very fast. Because when you're 16 years old, and you do one thing, the weight comes off so quickly. So, I lost weight quickly. So, I was probably like, almost 17 so it was like, Yeah, like grade 11 in high school. And yeah, and then after that my identity was being the thin one, the pretty one started modeling, and I just became my entire identity and value in this world.
Katelyn:
So, let's talk about that for a minute. Because I really am hearing the risk that's wrapped up in the identity, this new identity for yourself and what you mentioned that, that fear of not going back not being able to go back Otherwise, you'll run the risk of losing all of this praise and value that you've attained through changing your body by way of the validation that society is giving you. So how did you get into modeling- was that long after your body changed?
Jenna:
Um, yeah probably a year when I was like, because of course at first, I was just considering what I was eating. And like working out just a little bit in the house and then I got a gym membership and they just got more and more and more intense with both food and exercise. And then when I lost even more weight than I should, my friend was part of this model. agency in the city I live in in Calgary. And she was like, Oh, I should just come to this promotional thing. So it's not like being photographed. But just like, you know, they hire people who look a certain way to like handle products. So, I went and did that. So, I did quite a few of those jobs. And then the agency was like, Oh, you have a good luck, you should come in for a photo shoot. And it was pretty legit. It was free. They weren't asking for any money. So, like, okay, I'll do it if you're not asking for money. And then eventually, I got picked up by at Molly's zoo in South Africa and traveled there. And it was all just a whirlwind. And all of it was based on the way I look. So, it really like all of these things solidified, like, Oh, this is what your value is. And so, you better look this way, and keep looking this way and look even more and more like your quote, unquote, close to, and it was never enough no matter what I did. But that was really the messaging was, oh, you're valuable now. So, let's put you to work. And getting compensated for it and flown all over the world and all this attention and praise, like you're saying that's really emphasizing the validation as well, too.
Katelyn:
I can imagine. What was going on behind the scenes, Jenna? Because I think that what you're describing is a fantasy that most women grow up having, like being discovered that moment, you know- I certainly had it, hoping and praying every time I went to the mall as a teenager, that that would be my moment where like the camera person would pop out and hand over his business card or something. And I've talked about this with clients before and talked about this a lot in my community. I think we all have this fantasy in the back of our mind, a lot of us do, at least by way of what the media tells us in stories that we see on TV or read about and what not. And this is actually happening for you. You're going through this transformation like this summer transformation. It sounds like I'm actually getting that makeover praise almost. So, what was going on behind the scenes kind of back to my original question from the outside, it looked great. But what was your relationship with food and your body like, while you were modeling?
Jenna:
Yeah, I think we all know, like, the point of the story is not that Oh, yay, me, I'm so amazing. Did this great thing. Well, you are amazing. But for other reasons. But it does, it does definitely look different from the inside than the outside. So, at first it really was, I don't know, like to say that. It's all horrible. Just isn't true. Like, of course, a lot of that felt amazing. It was great. I had great experiences with people I met, I had great experience traveling, I had great experiences, like getting attention, like it feels good to the owl, like we're all humans. So, there was a lot of good that came from that. And the payoff was an absolute obsession with food binge eating quite quickly. And then for 10 years, I was binge eating, just a complete preoccupation with the way I looked. And then almost worst of all was like the dissatisfaction no matter what I looked like. Now when I look at modeling pictures, I'm like, I could not have been better if I tried. And I remember just picking myself apart, oh, I still got to improve this and improve that. And it was never good enough. So yes, from the outside, I was getting praise, but from the inside it, I just felt that all the time, no matter what. And so that just shows you. It's not about the body. It's about the mind, because my body was what it was what society says it should be. And I was still not happy. So, and that's what we hear from so many people on we used to have this Facebook group had like 10,000 people in it. And we did a poll where we just asked what you felt like when you did lose weight. Like what happened? What did you feel and almost think there were like 300 comments that were almost verbatim like it was never enough. And that really is the feeling like it's never enough. It's never good enough. I'm never good enough. No matter what's going on externally, internally, like I never feel enough. I always feel like an imposter. Like, I can't believe I'm here with these real models. And it's just a weird experience. So, I'm not going to say I regret any of it because it got me to where I am now. And I have some amazing memories from those times. But there was also a ton of damage, a lot of pain that if I had to go through that again, I definitely wouldn't be willing to go through it again. For that many years of pain, torture and just complete mental upheaval. Yeah. Growing up for how many years I was dieting and really in the struggle with, particularly with food for, like 10 or 11 years, and role modeling at the same time and modeling, I really only, I did one like international trip in 2010. And then one in 2012, the other managed at some local stuff, but I was still like in university and everything. So, I didn't do too much other than those two, like three-month trips. But my personal value was in the way I left though.
Katelyn:
Sure. Yeah, yeah, definitely. I want to go backwards before we go forwards, if that's cool with you, because that second memory that you brought to our conversation when you were 16, the one where you woke up, and you just decided that you were going to start being more aware of what you were eating and moving your body and all of those things. Have you ever gone back to that memory now and just acknowledged was anything else going on at that time, like any big changes or any anything in your relationships or at school or anything else that in hindsight, now you can attribute to? Just getting curious about the intention with dieting.
Jenna:
No, it was like, I mean, I've been in the same school, I only went to two schools my entire life, I lived in one house my entire life with my parents together my entire life, very stable, childhood, and adolescence. And so, it really was just like, an understanding that, oh, that would be as good for me as my ego, if I could do that. And I understood like, oh, all the popular girls in high school look like this, and I don't. So, if I look at them, is very like media based and nothing like my parents never, ever were diet-y or ever said anything. It was never in my home. But it was definitely like media, magazines, movies, that sort of thing that really propelled my idea of what women are supposed to look like, in particular.
Katelyn:
Yeah, that desire to fit in on a macro level and also a micro level. Yeah, to a set at such an impressionable age, you know, just feeling that desire to want to be like the popular one in school, like you're saying, and also acknowledging what it takes to get there sometimes just the privilege in that and, and whatnot. I, I really get that. So fast forwarding to getting out of modeling and you know, 10 years into this tumultuous relationship with food. It sounds like what was that moment like for you were you realize that something needed to change?
Jenna:
Well, there's a few key moments that I noticed that kind of was naturally changing. And I started questioning myself. One was after my second modeling trip, I came back, I was like, that was a horrible trip. Like I've had some bad experiences, nothing major, but just not nice people. And I didn't have the same awesome experience, I had the first trip. So, I was just ready to like not do that anymore. I didn't want to travel for modeling anymore. I didn't, I wanted to do something different. And I'd always wanted to be a teacher. So, I had my bachelor's degree. So, I went back for my Master's in education to become a schoolteacher. And one of the assignments was my kind of supervising teacher filmed me teaching a lesson to this a grade two class. And then I watched it back. And it was the first time I ever looked at myself. And the first thing I thought of was not what do I look like? It was like, Oh, look, this kid's doing that. Or those kids are paying attention. I was actually looking what I was doing, like the substance of who I am not just me as like, shell. So that was really cool. I was like, Oh, I did it. Like, worry about Oh, that angle looks bad. Or, Oh, those pants don't fit right or anything. Not one thing, but the way I looked and that was really like, Oh, that's interesting. And then a couple more moments that made me realize like, Oh, this isn't quite right. One was of course, I went to help coaching after that, because they thought Oh, that'd be good to like to motivate myself and then some money from it.
Katelyn:
I did the same thing too.
Jenna:
I think everyone does this when their first trying to grasp like, keep it in your hands but no, it doesn't work. Yeah, but so I was doing that. So, it's like tying my shoes to go down to like my dark unfinished basement is like cold. And it's like, I don't want to go do this work out, but I'm trying to sell these things. So, I should do it. And then I'm like, I don't want to I can move, I have to. And I really just like a voice was like, you don't have to, like you're a grown up. You don't have to do anything. And I really was the first time. I was like, oh, all the things that I think I have to do are missing. I have to do it. No one's I'm not a student. There's no teacher here saying I have to finish the assignment. And it really was the first time I ever thought of it that way. And then the last moment where I was like, okay, clearly this is not working. I was I was getting ready to go on a vacation with my now husband and his parents. So, like people that I don't, I'm not going to like meet guys or anything, and who am I there to impress nobody. And I was trying on my bathing suit for this vacation like, Okay, if I just lose five more pounds, thinking of how fun it will be when I look a certain way. It was like one, is it ever going to be enough? What am I going to get there? Like, it's been 10 years, not one day, how I felt like, Oh, my body is where I want it to be. And I'm happy. Not one day of 10 years. So, I was like, okay, clearly I'm not getting anywhere new. Like I don't have any sort of new body that I didn't have, like eight years ago. Like I got the quote unquote, results in like the first year. And then the rest was just like trying to maintain it. So, nothing was ever changing, or getting quote unquote, better. So, what was it like since I really realized like, this is a never-ending thing. And this is never gonna end if I keep doing this. And then the first kind of step I made with myself trying to get over it, which I think is like a lot of people it was really the binge eating, that was my biggest. Like, in my mind, that was the biggest issue. Because of course, diet culture says you shouldn't binge eat. So that to me was the problem, not the restriction, not the obsession, but the binge eating. And when I tried, I went to a dietician who I was recommended to, and I was just telling her like, Oh, I can't eat normally, like, it's so annoying. Like, I can't just have one piece of bread, I eat half a loaf, I can't have any food in the house or eat at all, like it's so frustrating. I just want to be able to be normal. But then of course, like but I also don't want to gain weight. And she wasn't like totally in line with the work I do now. But she did encourage me like, hey, like if you're hungry, and you bread with your lunch, like allow yourself to have it and start doing these kinds of things. And then of course I had the concern, but I'll gain weight. And she wasn't quite in line with the idea that maybe your body needs to gain weight. And I don't really know how it didn't happen, like in one day. But soon enough, I'm just like, I guess if there's food there, and I want to eat it, I'll actually start eating. Because I'm exhausted, I can't do this anymore. I've done every day under the sun. I've tried eating every single way and binge eating every week no matter what I do. And it's just horrible, I feel horrible mentally and physically. And this just isn't working no matter what. I'm like okay, let's just let it be what it's going to be, and I just have to eat. And I do allow myself to do that. And it was a gradual process. But I did get to the point where now let's start I still find myself like discovering new things about myself with food and everything being Whoa, that is so crazy that I can order Chinese food, make a big plate, eat whatever I need of that. Then when I'm done, I can just put it aside. And I feel great about it and really enjoyed it. And just some sometimes I'll do things that is so weird. Like I can have 10 bags of chips in my house, and I'll just eat them when I feel like it. It's really a cool thing.
Katelyn:
I so relate to so many of the things that you're sharing. A big part of my personal story is why I struggle. And I struggled with bulimia for over 15 years. But really around that time and through that time obviously, I struggled intensely with binge eating and I thought it was the same thing to I was like this is a me issue. Why can't I get this under control? And I remember saying I don't know if it was on the podcast that I mentioned this or somewhere else, but I googled everything under the sun, like what is going on? How do I stop? What's the trick? How do I stop binge eating? It was always like that to me as an issue. And I don't know if it was just not wanting to see what I needed to see at that point. But I never stumbled upon the concept of the restrict binge cycle. Again, I might have but I wasn't Willing to really look at it accurately at that point in my life. But yeah, there's a lot of shame around binge eating and a lot of confusion and frustration and, and all of these things. And I still feel the same way today to like you're saying I like every single day I feel like I noticed something like, Wow, this is so cool I can, I can have like bags of chocolate in the pantry, like jars of peanut butter and Fritos. And also like, you know, just things that I would have never, never noticed never been able to allow on the house before. They're just there. Yeah, it's the best. Yeah, it is what I would actually love to learn a little bit more about your experience and making peace with food. And I get it. That whole concept of just giving yourself the permission to eat, but why is it so important to stop restricting food? How is this contributing to binge eating? I don't know. Love your take on it. And just how you've, you've acknowledged that in your life and how you teach it today?
Jenna:
Yeah, well, it's I mean, it's a little bit of a controversial, controversial subject. But I mean, I'm Lauren and I, my partner in The Body Love Society, we are both in grad school to become therapists and a couple semesters away. So, it's very exciting. But every chance I get I try to like, do papers on like binge eating disorder and things like that. And I really don't believe in the name binge eating disorder. Because the binge eating isn't the disorder. It's whatever's causing the binge eating disorder, which is usually restriction.
Katelyn:
Yes. And oh, my God, I appreciate you saying that. I totally agree. I've just never had it actually positioned by way before.
Jenna:
Yeah, it's crazy. If you like a look at the DSM five, like what, how do you actually diagnose binge eating disorder? I'm like, okay, but none of this says anything about dieting, like the eating disorder community has a lot of bad culture within it. Yeah, like within the like, the legalities of it like definitions in the in like the core of it, you can't, you can't unravel it. It really is, when it comes to binge eating, I tried to tackle it as like a non-eating disorder thing, like, if you are no longer restricting, you will no longer binge. I truly believe that I've seen that with so many people. I was just finished up with one private client who was like binge eating, like when we began, like, there's only 12 weeks when we started binge eating every night to like, by the end, like I couldn't binge if I tried. And like it really is, of course, when you have an eating disorder, there's gonna be things that are deeper that you didn't need to go like to therapy and stuff to deal with. However, the act of binge eating can so quickly be extinguished. If your body is getting enough food, both mentally and physically. So that mental restriction of Okay, I'm going to let myself eat this, but it really shouldn't. And you're freaking out about it. But if you're truly allowing all food, your body just goes into this place of calm, it doesn't have that urgency to eat. Because biologically, you have balanced that out and you feel that. It's really an amazing thing, how binge eating can be helped so quickly. It just really takes a weight off people's shoulders, I think because I know for me, like, okay, I am doing my diet, but I knew it was coming. Every weekend, or every few days, I knew that they knew it was coming. And it just causes so much stress. It feels bad physically, like you said, there's so much shame, which is why binge eating almost always happens when you're alone. Like it's a hidden thing, it just creates such inner turmoil in your life. Whereas I know, it's not simple, but just because of the fear of weight gain and all the crap we learn. But if you just eat enough on a daily basis, and allow yourself the things you want, it really can be healed so quickly. And then you can of course also work on the deeper stuff that needs more complex work than just eat food. But it really is an amazing thing that I think a lot of people live with way longer than they need to.
Katelyn:
I agree. And I think one of the things that's so confusing for so many people and myself included too is I mean, and this is this is something that I think is one of those deeper layers, but it is this internalized fat phobia that we have, and these deep fears in our body bodies changing this fear of weight gain. And I mean, that's a lot to unpack in itself. And it's certainly different for every single person. But for you, what did that look like? Because you mentioned before you were, you're afraid that you were going to gain weight. As you were giving yourself permission to eat more, and also acknowledging that you were binge eating less, how did your body change if it changed at all? And what were some of those deeper issues that you had to unpack for yourself and your healing process?
Jenna:
Well, my process was definitely a lot easier than a lot of people, I still, like even after living this way, for seven years, I've had two babies in the past few years, I still have the privilege, I just that it's just genetics like doesn't seem to matter what I do. I am always illustrating as body. So that comes with a lot of privilege, because I'm not going to get the political side, I'm not going to get doctors breeding me to lose weight, I'm not going to get a lot of the things that are tangible things you're going to deal with if you're in a larger body. I have a lot kind of going for me in that way that it makes it easier for me in this society, to just be like, whatever I'm just going to eat. So that needs to be said, because I truly understand that it's not that way for everybody. But just the final part like the brain part of how I saw myself, I think I really just had to get to a point where I'm like, it doesn't like, I can't care what happens to my body anymore, because honestly, I can't live this way. It really was just like a weighing of like, pros and cons. And it's like, okay, I might gain weight, not like the way it looks. Now some days I'm like, Oh, yeah, that stomach looks like it's had a couple babies. It's not that I love that. And I'm excited about that. But I just know that it's not something I have control over. And I know that food is never something I can restrict ever again for the rest of my life. And I just know that I just have that genuine, deep knowing that I can't, I can't restrict, because it will cause so many bad things so quickly. And like I said, and by eating whatever I want, quote, unquote, I still am a straight sized body. There's that balance of it is easier for me in the world. But in the internal work, everyone can have that same freedom, if you can really get to a place which I think takes understanding of the education and both emotionally and educationally of like, restricting food doesn't work. This is all these negative side effects is that's what that's coming from. Like this is miserable. Am I going to keep doing this till I'm 95? Like, where does this end? And if you can get to a place where you're like, emotionally like, I can't do this anymore. And educationally, you understand like, I'm always going to be in the cycle, there's never going to be an end to this isn't some like world I'm in where I'm going to get to the finish line and be done. Like you're never going to be done with restriction. And at some point, you kind of do need to go like okay, having a happy life, a healthy body piece is more important to me than looking a certain way. Even in a society that's fat phobic. Because I mean, if you thought like, Okay, my daughter or my best friend and my mom. Yeah, I think she should diet and be miserable. I don't really care what she's feeling or thinking. I just think she needs to lose some weight. Like No, we never think that about other people. You kind of can get into your honesty that way of like, well what's really true for me? Do I really think I need to dedicate my life and live in suffering silence to be in a thinner body. Does that feel right in your heart? Or does that just feel like a superficial fear? Not that it's superficial, but it is superficial as in our society is very superficial.
Katelyn:
Yeah, there is some inner debate you need to have on like, what is the truth?
Jenna:
Totally. Like, is this what's right?
Katelyn:
Well, I think as women in this culture, at least in this society, we're kind of just brought up with this idea that we have to struggle, and we have to suffer. I mean, I remember growing up with that mantra, brushing my hair, it takes pains to be beautiful, you know, like, just silly little nuanced sayings that are repeated through our communities and the media and all of these things that Women have to suffer. And we have to stay small. And there's this idea of femininity and a certain size body as well, too, that is just so deeply woven into the fabric of this culture. And that's a lot to unpack as well, you know, that's why I also really like bringing in the, the, the cultural elements and the political elements of this conversation, and, and all of these things, because I love that you're sharing that it does not have to take a lot of time to end binge eating, I think that is so important for everyone to really hear, it really doesn't. When you're ready, and there is a lot to unpack beyond that, too. If you're interested, you know, like, there are reasons that support this behavior beyond just the restriction, just the restriction that are really, you know, a few layers deep, and you don't have to go there if you don't want to either, but it's just this. It's this cycle that's been pushed out generation and generation that is really hard to untangle collectively.
Jenna:
Yeah. But only at the individual level. It's like, Okay, if people's going to, quote unquote, reason for continuing restriction, or continuing to diet and continuing doing things that they know, hurt. And make them struggle, once you have that aha, like, Oh, this is hurting me. Because obviously, whoever's listening to this isn't deep in the diet and thinking it's great. Once you do realize, like, Oh, this isn't working for me, this is harming me, it's not fair. Why do we live in a society that's like this, I do believe no matter how hard it is, because if you're in various body sizes, it's going to be harder for some than others. But like, should you have to live the rest of your life this way, because society sucks. Like, every single person can choose to opt out. And that, for some that's going to come with more pushback than others. But it's worth it. I think, at any body size, it is worth it, to let go and to kind of like create your own world where it's like, I don't, I don't restrict, I take care of myself in a way where I eat enough. And I move my body in ways I enjoy, and I rest enough, and I get enough sleep, and I take good care of myself. And not in a like hustle kind of way. But in a like, peaceful, relaxing, nice way. And that can look so different for different people. Like right now, my mental health, I was kind of struggling and I was like, I need intense exercise in my life right now. And I know that's what I need. Because I've been very, like stagnant for probably six months, very, like not moving at all. And three years of like, no intense movement at all, like, no endorphins, no sweating. No, like since having kids. And I was like, I know that's gonna make me feel so much better. I went to try a class, I'm like, pretty intense, and I was red and sweaty at the end. At the end and the beginning of the class, I felt totally different mentally. So right now, I'm doing some more intense movement for my mental health. But that took so much healing to get to the point where I can do that, for reasons that, like, if my body doesn't change at all, I'm still going to do it. Because that's not what I'm doing it for. So, it's not to say like, oh, exercise is bad, and greens are bad, you shouldn't eat chocolate bars and doughnuts like that. I think that's kind of what some people hear initially. But taking care of your body is going to look different for everybody in every stage of life and allowing that ebb and flow and understanding that the focus isn't how your body looks, but how your body feels. And that's like, that's what your job is to take care of is how do I feel? How am I functioning? What do I want to achieve with my physical body? And that might be not much. Or it might be Oh, I want to do this huge hike with my partner next year. I want to get fit enough to do that. Like that all has a place in this work. But it just has nothing to do with the scale or the way your pants fit, or what size you are.
Katelyn:
Yeah, it's uncoupling your value from your body and making these decisions independently of that based on how you want to feel like you're saying. It's also really fascinating in your story Jenna, just hearing so much work around silencing the inner critic and what you mentioned about imposter syndrome coming up and redirecting the shoulds to wants in your life and the work that you really did around all of that as well, too. And the other thing that I really think is interesting about your story that I relate to, and I know a lot of people in this community will as well. But the identity shift that you experienced, living your life for so long being the healthy eater, and having the control around that being, you know, having that label that felt safe, probably and secure, and gave you certain access and privilege and advantages and to gently begin to let that go. I think that can be one of the reasons why so many people stay stuck in the restriction cycle, because that identity shift feels so, so hard, sometimes, and to really do the work around that can be really uncomfortable and challenging sometimes. Was that challenging for you- letting that go? What was the process like and really making peace with breaking up with that label as the healthy eater and coming into this label list place, it sounds like of your life?
Jenna:
There's kind of two identities. There's like your identity of yourself, like I identify myself as XYZ. But what I really realized is like, no one around me gives two F's, if I'm doing this workout plan, or if I've lost 10 pounds, or if I'm eating carbs or not, nobody gives a shit what you're doing. Nobody cares what you're eating, don't eat for other people, because I swear to god, yes, you're gonna have a moment where someone comments on your weight gain, or comments when you lose weight or whatever. But that's a fleeting comment for them. And then they go on with their lives. And you've now dedicated your next five years to that one comment. Like people do not care about you. sounds harsh, but very often it's about being the person that exactly they are so self-involved, just like we are. Because like, think of yourself. Okay, how much do you think about other people's bodies and other people's diets? And how much do you think about yourself? You're thinking about yourself 99% of the time? Well, so are they. So, once you realize that we're all sitting in a circle, obsessing over ourselves, worrying what everyone's thinking about us. But if you're the one that stands up and looks around, you realize everyone is obsessing about themselves. Now you can do whatever the hell you want. Because nobody cares. And that's really what I've learned is like, Yes, I still look somewhat similar to what I used to. But I've still gained a good amount of weight from when I was modeling, obviously, no buddy cares. My husband doesn't care. My family doesn't care. Yes, you will have family members, many people may have family members or friends who are very judgmental, and comment a lot that's about them, not about you. Because me as a director, I would obviously never say the nameless face, but I was very judgmental, like in my head about people's bodies, but what people ate about what people were buying at the grocery store, and how I was so much healthier. But when I healed my own shit, I don't care what anyone does, like I am so at peace that I give so much grace to everybody else. So, if anyone's hassling you about what you're up to. It's not because they really care. It's not because they really judge you. It's because they're struggling internally. And then so they need to kind of control you to like deal with their own stuff. And once you realize that truly no one's thinking about me when they go to bed, they're thinking about themselves. And I need to think about myself, and like, oh, in 50 years, am I going to be like, I'm so glad I dieted for those 50 more years. That was really good use of my time. I'm glad I didn't go to those birthdays. I'm glad I was like guided for a one on that vacation. And then I was on vacation. I just ate all the food and felt like crap the whole time just to come back and start another diet. Like I'm so glad. Because I kept those pounds off. Like No, I promise you if you do the healing now, in 50 years, you're going to be like, saying, God, I did that work. I'm so grateful. I have all these memories. I'm so grateful. I was truly involved in my life after I did that, because that's what we see a lot like the diet collective our membership in our app. And almost every day someone is commenting like, just today we had a comment and someone saying I've went on a vacation somewhere. I've been nine times. And we see the same people and we kind of do the same things. And this time, like everybody was noticing a difference in her that she was participating in everything. She was truly there. She wasn't like eating her own food, she was present and alive and participating. And she's like, this is like one out of nine vacations. She was really there. Like what a waste of time and money those other vacations. When you do this work, everything comes alive. Even if you don't look quote unquote as good as you used to in society's eyes, everything gets better and brighter and more colorful. And you're just there for your life way more.
Katelyn:
I love that expression so much, I always describe it as a really colorful time in life as well, too. I just feel like the energy shifts when you're really in this new space with your body and out of the binge cycle. It's, it's like everything is illuminated around you, you can see things again, for the first time I experienced that on a really deep level because I was so consumed with my body and food and all of the things that I only had so much mental energy throughout the day, I couldn't I didn't even realize how much it was sabotaging the rest of my life as well too. And I still, like even today I call them soul, Soul Food, I take these walks, and I just love to capture things around me just because it's so fun to look at the world and really see the world and be present with the world versus just being somewhere else in your mind.
Jenna:
Yeah, absolutely. Like I couldn't imagine. I'm so glad I did the work when I did. Which is not to say that anyone listening, it's like, oh, it's too late. It's like now's always the time. But like I did this work before I was pregnant and had kids, I can't imagine stressing that much about my body. After having two pregnancies and two c sections like, no, I would have been freaking out and like I got to get my body back to what it was before. I would have not been present with my children that are now three and one and a half, like it is a crazy time around here. And I don't I barely have time to like, have a shower? How would I have been like a diet or that was exercising all the time, I do not know what I would have done. I'm so grateful that I like found peace before that phase, because it's really hard, quick changes that can be dramatic. And for yourself mentally to
Katelyn:
Yeah, totally. Let's talk about community and how this plays a role in the healing process. Because I think it's really interesting that when you were in this intense part of your life around the binge restrict cycle, and just the body shame that you were experiencing, you were also in this community of high expectation comparison. You know, the world of modeling, I can only imagine what that environment is like as it relates to the conversations around food and bodies and all of that. What did you recognize about getting out of that and creating a new community and choosing the community that you wanted? And how that impacted your relationship with your body and food?
Jenna:
Yeah, I think it's actually surprising. Like when I was in the modeling phase, like my mental dialogue was definitely a lot stronger around food than what was happening around me. And body then too. So, given a lot of models are naturally like that. I was not like I had to dedicate everything to it that way. Whereas a lot of these people I lived with were like drinking, partying, eating, because just the way they look, and that's fine. That's cool, whatever. But we need to know that that like that's genetics for most people. And if that's not your genetics, that's not bad. That's just different. And it was definitely an internal dialogue, there was a lot of struggle. But then when I was trying to get out of that mental space, realizing like I just want to be at peace, I wouldn't be done with this. I think it was more of a like definitely avoiding people who were still super diet-y and who were in that language, which I was probably the worst one for the people around me. When I stopped that really helped everyone around me, I think, Oh, wow. But yeah, I think then, moving forward, obviously on the line is where I found most of kind of this Community Health at Every Size, intuitive eating as a concept. Like I did all of that before I even knew any of this was like a real thing. I just knew like; I can't do this anymore. But I didn't know there was a name for it and words for it to think otherwise. Once I started finding like oh, Health At Every Size- there's a book and there's a community and there's people who do this work and there's therapists to deal with this stuff. And there's dieticians who are at the diet, and there's always intuitive eating counselors and intuitive eating is the thing that really helped put a name to it and kind of feel more like you're doing something instead of just not diet. And that felt nice to know, like, Oh, I have found like a good path for me. And it's also working for tons of other people too. And that kind of makes you feel less crazy in a world that's obsessed with dieting.
Katelyn:
Mm hmm. Yeah, totally. Just getting on the same page with being able to name some of these things, and also the support around being able to go through this process and, and just the letting go process as well, too. I really hear that. I feel the same as what you're describing too, it's so great finding these communities and friendships and just having people in your life that you can have conversations about things other than your body and food, and all of that stuff. I'm curious about how about your relationship with social media, Jenna, because from a mental health perspective, because I know that you've brought that up. And you're also really present online. And I think that there's a lot of amazing things that can come out of being online. And there's a lot of really detrimental things. What's your what's your take on it?
Jenna:
It's kind of hypocritical, because I'm creating, we create a lot of content for people, but hopefully it's all positive. But I'm definitely like, I like to post and then leave. I don't really look at things on social media. I don't have Facebook really anymore, don't you? We don't use that, we just have our Instagram. And then we have our app, which has kind of been really cool because it's kind of the same vibe as social media. All our members can post and talk and ask questions, and we can chit chat, but then there's no fear of falling into the rabbit hole diet-y messaging coming in. So that's been really cool. But as for Instagram, yeah, we just post and kind of communicate with our community there. But we don't follow many people. And we don't even we don't look too much at people who do the same work as us. I find that kind of brings me out of my, oh, what do I have to say? What's kind of been coming up for me and my clients lately and more into like, oh, they're posting about that I should talk about that. And then that is never isauthentic or valuable?
Katelyn:
Mm hmm. Yeah, I feel the same way too. And I think it's interesting that you chose the word hypocritical, because I say that quite often. I feel like, I'm constantly telling people to get off social media, and social media thinking, well, if I get off, should I just not post but that's the nature of business these days. I know, I'm, I'm trying to kind of figure out where it fits in my business right now. I cannot be on social media. Personally, especially scrolling I'm a highly sensitive person, I don't know if you identify as this as well. But like the videos and the loud, just like how abrupt everything is and the noise. I'm just like, oh my god, I feel like, just because I'm not used to it. I don't scroll up that much, ever. And if I happen to on accident, I'm just like, Oh, my God, my entire nervous system is just like, shocked. And that's also one of the reasons why I feel so strongly about how we choose to spend time on these platforms as well. Because if we're normalizing our nervous systems too that’s really harmful, just from an energetic perspective, what we were talking about before, we only have so much energy to put into places throughout our day. So no, that's really fascinating. What do you do to take care of your mental health these days? What do you really prioritize from a radical self-care perspective?
Jenna:
I mean, just kind of looping back to like, where I started the exercise piece has been really big for me lately, and it's been fun to actually dedicate some time to go to a class where there's people now that we're allowed to do that in our area. And like, take the time, because I'd like I said a three-year-old one and a half year old so to do anything on my own by myself. It's like such a treat. So that's been really fun to do a few times a week. And then just knowing my work style like I'm not going to work for eight hours ever. breaks and walks and West ends and kidney shows here and there. And that's just the way I am, and I think a lot of our judgments are gonna go on lazy I get distracted. So easy. I need to do this. I need to do that. Like I get my work done. And I like reality TV, and fun. things where you can turn your brain off and just be accepting of that can feel nice sometimes.
Katelyn:
Yeah, that's changed so much for me over the past few years in, like silencing my own inner critic and breaking up with the shoulds and really just getting into that pleasure space of what would feel good, you know? Where's the bar set on my day right now? How do I bring it down a few notches and just enjoy life because we're not enjoying life, then why are we living?
Jenna:
You know, that's the point. That's the whole thing withdieting. It's like, Okay, well, you have the book, even if your body looks the way you want to for what cause like, what's the purpose if you're miserable the whole time? Well, good is a body that looks a certain way. If you hate everything. And you're stressed, and you're bingeing, and you're obsessed, and you're, and you're just not happy. Like that's the point is to feel good and be happy. And if we think we're going to lose weight, it's going to make us happy. But you're miserable the whole time you're pursuing it, like that's not the answer.
Katelyn:
Yeah, I am right there with you. I love this conversation. I think this is a perfect place to end. And I want to invite you to share where everybody can find you. Because for everyone listening who does not know The Body Love Society, and everything that they have, I mean, you're just you're putting out such valuable content. And I'm similar. I don't really follow that many other accounts, because it's funny the way that you described it, I feel like that too like, oh my god, this is screwing with my authenticity and like the words that I want to like get out with this. But the reason why I love your content so much is because it lands so well. It's super digestible, especially the infographics and whatnot. I love sharing it. I'm always really grateful because I'm just like, cool. This is very comprehensive. And I get to, you know, collaborate in that way and bring people into your world. So where can everybody find you and tell us about this app that you're creating? It sounds amazing.
Jenna:
You can find us on Instagram @thebodylovesociety. We also have a new website coming in the next couple months at thebodylovesociety.com. You can go there and find stuff there now, but we can have a lot more things and resources upcoming. But our app is out. It's the Undiet Collective. It is closed at the moment, but you can join the waitlist at thebodylovesociety.com/undietwaitlist and just get more information about the app and the membership. And then we will be opening up this for a couple days, probably in October, but only to people who are on that waitlist. So, if you do have any interests, we definitely recommend you check it out. This is just a great place for community. Like we were talking about having people who get this work that you can just talk to and ask questions and get support from is so valuable, where you don't need to explain the work you're doing. They just know. Oh, I know what I'm doing reading is I know what anti diet is. I know what body acceptance is. And then of course, Lauren and I are the coaches in there who answer everyone's questions. We do community calls, we do live Q&A. We have guest experts every month. So, lots happening there for a really affordable price. So, if anyone is looking for support, it's a great place to go.
Katelyn:
Amazing. We'll link everything in the show notes too, to keep it super simple. So, thank you, Jenna, you are fabulous. I am just so appreciative of you taking the time and sharing your truth and your story and all of the work that you're doing in this world.
Jenna:
Thank you so much for having me. It's been great.