Episode 129: Thriving as a Multi-Passionate Creative with D’Ana Joi
Episode 129: Thriving as a Multi-Passionate Creative with D’Ana Joi
D'Ana Joi, who goes by her middle name “Joi,” is a coach for multi-passionates and host of the Multi-Passionate Mastery Podcast. She believes having many passions is a gift, not a burden, and is on a mission to rewrite the narrative around “choosing one thing” being the only path to success.
Through her signature group coaching program, podcast, and content, Joi teaches creatives from all walks of life how to create clear priorities and bring their ideas to life on a completely stress-free timeline.
In this conversation we talk about:
Joi’s personal body image story- navigating conflicting messages around her body & how she created her own self-acceptance.
Deciding to leverage her many passions, rather than looking at them as a burden.
Her signature 3-part Focus Framework and how Human Design has played a role in her success.
Joi’s experience hitting burnout, what she learned through the process, and how she’s shifted.
Decision-making & how we can each build this skill more effectively.
Deciphering social conditioning vs. what works best for you, when it comes to a work schedule.
What it means to “date your ideas” and why it’s so valuable for multi-passionate people.
Joi’s relationship with her body now and how her foundational self-beliefs transfer into the work she does today.
Connect with our guest...
Resources we mention in this episode…
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TRANSCRIPTION Episode 129: Thriving as a Multi-Passionate Creative with D’Ana Joi
Katelyn:
D'Ana Joi. Hi- Welcome to the show! Thank you for being here.
Joi
Hi, thanks so much for having me. I'm really excited about the conversation that we get to have today. Me too.
Katelyn:
Me too. Let's jump right in. Because I have so many questions that I'm dying to ask you. And I cannot wait to hear your story and get to know you. And the first question that we ask everybody who comes on the show is your first body awareness moment. So what did that look look like for you that moment where you realized, I'm in a body? And apparently this means something in the world that I'm living in? And also, how did that moment impact your relationship with yourself? Whether it was your body image or food, or your mental health, just your body image story in general, what did that look like?
Joi
So I developed really early, I started getting breast at nine, I started my menstrual cycle in nine, which is just like so early. So, you know, I was aware that I was developing. And, you know, I had a lot of what my mom would call like, baby fat at that time, where I just kind of became chubby almost as I was like, also simultaneously getting these really womanly qualities in my body. And I remember that once I went shopping with my father, and I came out of the dressing room was maybe a pair of jeans or something. And he made a comment about how I was filling out the genes. And it was really inappropriate. And I've had conversations with him as an adult about the damage he did. To me as a kid by making inappropriate comments about my female body as a male, I don't care if you're my father, you don't get to make comments about my body, it felt wrong, right. And so it was a combination of like, feeling like I was maybe being sexualized, a little bit like, Oh, you're filling out those jeans like, and also feeling like, I was being told that I had too much weight on my body. And it was shocking for him. And I think that's why he made the comment is he didn't he never looked at me before and saw like, oh, wow, like, Okay, let's get a bigger pair. Those are too tight, you filling them out. And so I think he was going through his own awareness of my body. And he chose to vocalize it out loud, and it impacted me. And that started a cycle of it out. So my parents are, they were never married, I should say, I came I came from a split household. So I had a very different experience with my mom. But for my father, that started to train of like, I was no longer allowed to eat ice cream. He enrolled me in like softball, because he wanted to make sure that I didn't get fat, he made many more inappropriate comments about my body as I was growing up. And it was just like his own ego not wanting to have a chubby daughter. You know, he would say like, Oh, I was just concerned about your health. But there, you don't need to make comments about someone's like physical appearance. If you're concerned about their health, you can invite them into eating a certain way or take them on a hike or right you know what I'm saying? So that, that time with my father where he was becoming aware of my body, and I was aware that he was aware, really fucked me up. I was, you know, I, I remember crying to my mom and being like, Am I fat, like, I'm ugly, what's wrong, and she's like, this is baby fat. This is what happens before you get hips. This is a part of being a woman, you're probably going to be a curvaceous woman, which I now am. You know, and she was like, you can eat whatever you want. Do not let your dad get to you. He doesn't understand he's never been in a woman's body. Just ignore him. Let it roll off your shoulders. But of course, as a kid is really hard. You our parents have such a stronghold on our psyche throughout life, but especially when we're young and impressionable. And so, I was in these two different households with two different parents who had two very different concepts of my body. My mom was just wildly accepting and empowering and just told me to basically not ever worry about it. And my father was concerned and wanting me to not be the size that I was, as I was growing through and in it really did happen. I grew up, I got taller, you know, my weight distributed. And it just turned out that I had an hourglass shape, you know, and later in life, I saw that my mom was right, but there will be times where my weight always fluctuated up and down. I gain weight easily. And then if I start working out, you know, my body's like, Oh, we're working out now and then I'll just drop a bunch of weight. And it kind of goes back and forth like that, for me, at least. And so I fluctuated between so many different sizes, I have been so many different sizes, I'd love to explore this, I've been just, I remember there's very few times in my life where I've been unaware of how much I weighed, or, or not necessarily, you know, I never had a really a scale, I was never paying much attention to numbers, but I pay attention to how my clothes fit or if I was growing out of a size or things like that. And anytime I would gain weight, I would hear my father. Up until very recently, I did a lot of therapy to heal around this. So it doesn't impact me as much anymore, I just decided that men don't get to comment about my body, I that's just the standard that I've set. Now they don't, there's no place for a man to have anything to say about my body period. You just don't know what it's like to live in a woman's body. So you don't get to say, but it took time to get there. And so, you know, when I would be in a more we can just call it fit. You know, maybe I was riding my bike when I was in college riding my bike to class all the time. And I took up hula hooping and just these activities that organically sort of changed my physique, we can say, you know, Oh, you look great. My dad, you look great, whatever you're doing, keep doing it. But then if I gain way, oh, like, Oh, I see like, again, you know, it's just like, Don't comment either way. Be quiet, be quiet. And so that's something that I would say is my first body awareness moment that became a part of how I identified with being in a curvaceous, double C thick, hourglass shaped body throughout. Throughout my life. I'm 33. Now almost 34. And so I would say from age nine, up until about age 30 to 32 is when I started therapy. That was the overarching theme was I have a body that changes a lot. And when there's more weight on it, that's not good. And and I learned that from my father, which is unfortunate, but I think a lot of us have a similar story.
Katelyn:
I can I mean, I totally agree. I think that there are so many people who are going to feel seen and heard and really understood in your story and have similar experiences. But this is your experience. And I really appreciate you sharing everything so transparently and I have so I mean, I have so much compassion for that moment in your life, being nine years old and hearing that and, you know, I can understand that I have I have similar experiences of that as a young kid and my own body. But the conflicting messages. That's, that's tough for anyone. And I can only imagine how that impacted your relationship with yourself. And I'm so glad to hear that you're at a place now where it does feel different. The thing that I'm really curious about joy is how this pattern of seeking approval from body image standpoint has shown up in other areas of your life. Have you noticed that at all, because that is such an impressionable age to hardwire that type of performance in and that that pleasing in general, especially as a woman so have you noticed that in any other area of your life? Or has it kind of just been compartmentalized with your body?
Joi
You know, I would say I didn't really have a desire to please my father, I wasn't like, let me get, maybe I should work out or, you know, get to a certain size. So he'll be happy. I knew it was wrong for him to talk to me like that. I knew it was wrong for him to make me feel bad about it. I knew that he really didn't have a right to tell me what he thought of my body. I didn't have the language for it. And I didn't have the resources to say I know what I look like I don't need your commentary. I didn't have that I didn't have those faculties at 12 and 13 and 15. But I didn't feel the need to please Him I most certainly if anything I was like rebellious. So I don't think it turned into any kind of pleasing pattern at all. But I will say I was in a relationship, not the one I'm in now but the previous relationship that I had, where I was dating someone and he was very into fitness. He was like he would go to the gym and workout and I'm a person Whew, I'll take a dance class. I'll go on a nice long walk. I'll hula hoop I'll roller skate, but I'm not going to the gym. It's just not my thing. I'll do something like social that happens to involve movement, but I'm not going to the gym. Been there tried it not for me it is what it is, you know. Or if I do go to a gym, I'm going to a class, you know, I'm not going to like equipment and hard metal things and all that it's just me. So, but I was dating this guy who was very into fitness. And, you know, he had, you could, you could say he had a great body in terms of like, that would be the societal standard to me. He was into fitness and his body reflected that our bodies can sometimes just reflect like what we're into at the time. You know, like when I was hula hooping, I was like, super chiseled waist and add muscles. And it's like, okay, yeah, because there was something I was interested in, in my life that created that when I was riding my bike to and from all my classes in college, I had really defined muscular legs. Yeah, because I was riding my bike all the time, you know. So I would say his body reflected what he was, what he was interested in, or whatever, rather than just use the language of like, oh, he, he was hot or something. But anyway, Lee broke up. And you know, how sometimes during a breakup or an argument, like, I don't know, I think this is more of a guy thing. Maybe I'm just biased, but men tend to hold things in and have a harder time communicating. So then, when like, shoots already hitting the fan, that's when they let it all out? Like, well, you are this and that, and it's like, Oh, finally, you're gonna die. You're gonna tell me all your feelings. Okay. So he did that. And he started talking about my weight. Yeah, you need to lose weight. You need to go back to hula hooping every day is what he says specifically. And I was like, why are you saying that? And he's like, just you need to just start hula hooping. And I was like, Are you? Are you commenting on my weight? Are you saying that I need to lose weight, because we had been together for three years. And like I said, I'm a person who fluctuates, and I had gained weight over time. And so he's like, You need to go back to that. And I wouldn't be with someone who knows how to take care of themselves. And that stung and that hurt. And it brought up all my father stuff, right? But when we broke up, I was like, Okay, well, fuck you. And I started working out as like almost a rebellion. Like at home, I just started doing like Tracy Anderson method videos or something, I would do this one video that was just so hard, that I would just do it every day and see if I could get a little bit further like a few times a week. And I started to see a difference in my body. But I also started to feel really good that I was doing this for me that I was doing this outside of my relationship with him. I wasn't doing it to please him because he was gone. But I noticed that I was doing it to rebel against him. Yeah. So yeah, so as I entered my next relationship with my partner, now, who I have also in this relationship, I mean, my body looks completely different now than it did than it did when we met in terms of, I have a lot more weight, I gained weight, a lot of weight through the pandemic, and, you know, I'm, my body's different. And he loves me so much, and just always tells me I'm beautiful and sexy, and it doesn't matter to him. And I find that I have very little motivation to exercise because I have nothing to rebel against. So you asked that question, you know, how has it shown up in my life in terms of pleasing people? And I think for me, it's what is my relationship with my body when I'm not rebelling? That's more of what it is for me.
Katelyn:
That's so interesting. I'm so grateful that you clear that up? And repurpose that question, because that makes a lot of sense. And also, it's, it's really interesting to hearing the feedback that you were getting from your mom around that time that you were getting the messages from your dad, and having her as an ally and somebody who was empowering you to really stand your ground and be in your own your own body and your own space and, you know, defining boundaries, even though like you mentioned, you might not have had the, the language for it at that time. It sounds like she was really in your corner, fostering that message of this really sacred identity for yourself as well too. So and having that what a gift. I mean, what a true gift to have, not just anybody but your mom and your corner who is really instilling that in you and that makes a lot of sense how Perhaps that kind of gave some fuel to the fire to really amp the rebellion up even so.
Joi
Yeah, shout out to my mom. Yeah, she was really great during that time. And I've had conversations with my mom about my body as well, when I've you know, I've there's been times in my life were especially after being locked down and going to the pandemic and watching my body basically put on a cloak of safety, I think in terms of the amount of weight that I gained in a short amount of time. It was like, clearly I don't feel safe. And I am armoring myself that was it's like obvious, like, you know, like, if you just look at the circumstances, especially being a black woman in America, during this time where I just didn't feel safe. And I don't know that I would necessarily say I went to food as a source of safety, I eat pretty moderately, I would say I eat healthy enough, you know. But I think that my hormones literally shifted to create more weight gain. I don't know this, for sure. But it's intuitively what I feel. Also getting up in age, and you know, our bodies really do change around 30 or so is like, I'm like, Whoa, okay, it's different now.
Katelyn:
Joi you sound so grounded with all of this, which I think is. So it's so incredible to hear. And I'm curious if you truly feel this way, or if I'm just or if I'm just interpreting what you're saying in a different way. But you sound just really practical about your relationship with your body. And I'm curious how you would define your relationship with your body right now? What? What would you say it's like today versus more of the troubling times when you were growing up?
Joi
Yeah, you know, that's interesting that you're picking up on that, I guess. And I'm actually shocked about how comfortable I feel even having this conversation. I do think that a year or maybe two years ago, it wouldn't have quite felt like this. When I was watching my body change a lot. And I don't always feel I haven't always felt super grounded. Or I might feel okay in my body until I see a picture of myself. You know, and go, Oh my gosh, that's what I look like now. Whoa, okay. Let me ready to start going on more walks. Or maybe it's time to get that hula hoop out. You know, like, I've definitely done that to myself, I've looked at my body and thought, Oh, hell no, that can't be what I look like, that's not okay. I've had moments where I've looked in the mirror and cried, that I've that I'm this size, because I remember being like I said, I've been many different sizes in my life. And, for me, what has changed is pregnancy. You know, I'm I'm almost eight months pregnant at this point. And, for me, pregnancy created an entirely different relationship with my body, where I was no longer willing to criticize how my body looked. Because it was doing, it's doing this amazing thing. It's creating a life. And I know that, you know, I want to be really sensitive here. I know, not everyone's body can do that. And I'm so grateful. I just feel so in all of my body. As I watch my stomach grow, and I feel my baby kick, and even the aches and the pains and the weird things that happen to your body. It's just fascinating to me and learning about birth, and what happens with that, and what contractions are actually doing. And I've just learned so much about my body from the standpoint of it being this miraculous thing that can create life, that it's hard to now for me, it's hard for me to be like, Oh, but I just wish, like my arms were more toned. It just feels trivial to me now, because I see my body in such a different way as something that creates life, but I won't lie. I've had the thought, oh, I help breastfeeding helps me lose weight. Or like maybe like, okay, you know, this will be a new start for me, I'll have this baby and I'm going to want to be active so that I can like, take good care of him and run around with him when he starts to walk. So I'm going to use that first. You know, six months before he's like really walking to like start getting back in shape. I have thought about those things, but it's more from the standpoint of what kind of mother do I want to be? Do I want to be a mother who cannot keep up with her one year old or her toddler at the park? Or do I want to be someone who has a certain level of physical stamina that I can really play with my kid and enjoy them for a long time. That's the That's a huge difference to like. You know, I want to get back at my ex I'm going to have a hot girl summer and I'm going to exercise and look really good. You know, it's just so I think it's part of it is just maturity and life circles. stance is helping me shift my perspective of, we have these bodies that are miraculous. And you know, there's been many, many times where I wish that I look different, or I wish that I looked how I did in the past and hadn't gained so much weight. But through becoming pregnant through, I was really sick in the beginning of my pregnancy, and it was not fun. And at that point, I was just like, Please body like, please, you know, like, let's get through this. And it really just shifted everything. For me, I have nothing but compassion for myself and my body at this point in my life. And that's like one of the gifts that I can say my child has given me before he even gets here, for sure.
Katelyn:
I love that so much. And this is just such a great example of the relationship that we all have with our bodies. I mean, you've just shared your story up until this point. And we have chapters and chapters, and probably chapters that we haven't even touched on that have really, given all of us a glimpse of how your relationship with your body has shifted and changed and evolved. And the history of it, like where some of these things come from. And so I think that's so amazing and so inspiring that you're at this place now, where you have a very intentional relationship with, with your body and yourself. And I can't wait for this little baby to come into your life and for you to just shower all this empowerment on on them as well to what an amazing place to be in to give birth, I couldn't be happier for you.
Joi
Thank you. Yeah, I'm so excited about the whole birth experience, at first I was freaked out, was gonna be so scary. But the more I learned about it, the more I realize, like I'm, I'm so excited, I want to feel it all. And I just, yeah, I'm so excited about this ancient, ancient journey that I have the privilege of going on, it really is a privilege.
Katelyn:
It is, yeah, I'm excited for you, I really want to shift into the work that you're doing today. Because I'm really curious from hearing your story and getting to know you in the past 20 something minutes, I feel like I have all these glimpses into the brilliant professional that you are today. Because it seems like you've just got this really, I'll use the word grounded again, like a grounded approach to life. And I know you specialize in working with multi passionate creatives. And now I can understand why because it sounds like you are really attuned to just passions in your own life and how you're feeling about your own life and your relationships in general. And so how did you start getting into the work that you're doing today? And maybe just give us a glimpse into how you show up in serve your community today? And in the coach that you are?
Joi
Yeah, sure. So it all started with me being in my kind of mid 20s? And wanting to have an answer to the question. Okay, so what am I gonna get serious about? What am I what am I doing? You know?
Katelyn:
I think a lot of us go through that.
Joi
Exactly, like, we're all like, okay, you know, high school is over, or maybe I'm entering college, and I'm figuring out a major, and it just feels like this time where we're supposed to make all these really big decisions. And then we kind of get a little older and we're like, I didn't know anything, you know, but that's where I was. And as I was wanting to make these decisions, or like, Okay, so what's my life gonna be like, What do I want to do? I realized that I was met with all these different options, because I have a lot of different talents and a lot of different creative outlets. So there's one part of me that wants to be a singer, right, and just like tour and be making music all the time. There's another part of me that's a writer, there's another part of me that wanted to be at that time, a motivational speaker, I also was really into fashion and was like, Maybe I should go to fashion school. I loved home decor and thought about how cool would be to be a buyer and to travel the world looking for unique items. And so I was having a really hard time picking anything. And then I would pick something, but I would feel like this, isn't it or I would do it for a little while and then be like, Oh, this isn't it. I remember at one time I even wanted to be a sign language interpreter because I learned ASL in high school. So eventually I realized, I don't think this whole All, like being an expert in one field and being dedicated to one thing for the rest of my life is for me, it started to feel like this clearly isn't working. Because it shouldn't be this painful to like, just choose what I want to do. But it was like gut wrenching, it was so hard for me. So I decided that I wasn't going to choose this is that that rebellion, right? I was like, oh, no, I'm not going to choose, I'm going to choose myself. And I like to do a lot of different things. And I'm good at a lot of different things. And I trust and I believe that I can make this work for me somehow. And then I came across that word, multi passionate, creative, I think it was like, Marie Forleo was being interviewed in the, you know, the podcast host introduced her as a multi passionate, creative entrepreneur. And I don't even think I listened to the rest of the interview, because all I needed to hear was the words, multi passionate, creative. I was like, what, there's a word for this. There are people like this, get out of here. And so that was it for me. I decided then in there that I wasn't going to choose one thing, I would choose myself. After that, I started a blog as a way to create a safe space for me to have an outlet that I had complete, creative control over and creative freedom to talk about anything that I wanted. And as I began to blog and write and just put my work out there and discover myself, I found that I kept coming back to wanting to write about being multi passionate, wanting to write about the creative process, wanting to give advice. And it kind of just opened up my world, I no longer felt confused, I no longer felt like I was flaky, or that I would never be successful. Because I couldn't choose one thing I really started to see no, there's another way. And I might not have a clear example of it. Because there aren't, I couldn't really find that many people like me that I was like, I'm willing to figure this out. And from there, I felt like I had kind of cracked some some kind of code because I was so happy with my life, you know? And I was doing all these different things, and they were meeting my needs in different ways. What were you doing there was I was, I mean, I was blogging. I was also doing photography. So I would do product photography for folks. They'd send me products, I'd take really cool pictures, or I would do like flatlays, I was selling stock photos. I had an Etsy shop where I was selling vintage stuff, because I loved like that as well. And I think at that time I was a nanny. So I was nannying to kind of make income. So I really wasn't depending on anything to like pay my bill. So it was just like this fun time. And I was also really passionate about childcare I was I was an amazing nanny, I was even really good at that. Because I love education. And I love children. So I was doing a lot of different things. And I just felt so fulfilled. I was like, this is fun. This is working for me. And there was a point where I realized I was feeling good. And that wasn't enough for me anymore. I wanted to help other people get there, I wanted to help other multi passionates break out of this feeling of I'm flaky, I'm wishy washy, I can never focus on anything, I just can't choose something and therefore I won't be successful, I really was like, there was another way if I can do this, anyone can. And from there, I wanted to start coaching. And that's how I became a coach. And I went back and forth with that I was like, I don't know, if I want to be a coach, maybe I just want to have a course. I'm not sure if I want to work with people, I started off with one on one coaching. And I found that to be pretty draining. And so it took me a while to find my sweet spot with that lots of trial and error. But where I landed is that I am now a life coach for multi passionate, I coach through a group coaching experience called prioritize and thrive. And what I help my clients do is finally break free from the pressure of feeling like they have to do all the things at once. And I help them cultivate clarity through learning their human design and other modalities. And then we move into creating what we call a priority stack, which is just this way of deciding not to choose one thing, but what order you're going to do things in it's going to feel energizing and exciting for you. And then we learn how to focus to follow through so that you gain momentum on the priorities that you've set. And what it does is it takes like I have a client right now who she had always wanted to launch a program she spent two years saying she was going to launch his program after joining prioritize and thrive and going through the coursework and coaching with me. She launched it and it was like she it was just like easy for her at that point. And so she took this dream off the shelf and it became a reality. And now she's moving on to the next thing. And so that's kind of like a real time example All of how I help my clients that starts with really, they feel so empowered to be held in a container by someone who also identifies as multi passionate that they come in realizing nothing's wrong with them. And so that gives us a clean slate to create. And when you are no longer struggling with how do I know what to focus on? How do I know which idea to take action on? What do I prioritize? Once those questions are answered, that's when your multi passionate magic really gets to come out. Because you're not using all of your mental faculties to problem solve. You're using it for your creativity. And that's, that's ultimately what I help my clients do. Oh, my God, breaking best.
Katelyn:
So, so cool, I have a million questions. And the thing that I think is like the most exciting in my brain right now, after hearing your story is, yes, this makes so much sense for you, after getting to know you, like you are the type of person it seems like where this shows up in all of your areas of your life. And especially with your body image story you gave so many examples of sometimes I want to move my body this way. Sometimes I want to hula hoops. Sometimes I want to go for hikes. Sometimes I want to ride my bike. Sometimes I'm this size, sometimes I'm that size. Sometimes I like this food or that food and just giving yourself full permission to not make it mean anything about you and to explore all of these passions and all of these areas and, and learn from it and allow and allow it to walk beside you rather than ahead of you or far behind you. And it sounds like you, like you're walking your talk just with all of these areas of your life. And now the the profession that you've chosen, really. So it's so cool to it's so cool to hear that. And I'm also curious, first of all, what's your human design? Because I love human design. And I'm always fascinated by what people are. Do you mind sharing?
Joi
Oh, yeah, oh, no, I'm happy to share. So I'm an emotional manifestor. If you want to get even more granular, I'm a quad left. So I love structure. I'm really like regimented and structured. That's why I'm able to create a method for prioritizing because that's how my brain works. And that's why I'm able to create so many teachable frameworks because I'm a quad left. And so I think in terms of structure and repeatable processes, and I have eight defined centers, and only my sacral is undefined. And it's a sacral mirror, which means that has not even a single gate defined. So part of why my energy comes across as very grounded is that I have eight defined centers. And then I have a right-angle cross of rulership. So lots of clean energy in there. And yeah, that's my human design. I love Human Design. I'm happy to talk about it. I love it
Katelyn:
We had Erin Claire Jones on the show, I think like 10, or 15 episodes back, and she did a really great job of just like breaking that down. So I'll link that in the show notes for everybody. So that we don't have to spend the rest of our conversation on human design, because it is a really like specific conversation that we had. But that's so interesting, and it makes complete sense. And then I'm also curious about how you feel like you are leveraging your multi passionate creativity in your life at this point. What Where are your hands right now? What are you? What are you involved in that some people might look at and be like, Oh, my God, that's too much. But for you, it feels right.
Joi
Yeah, I think you know, I'm so grateful. I'm part of it. One of the exercises that I have my clients go through whenever they come to me feeling unsure whether or not being multi passionate is a good thing is assigning a value to each of their passions, so that we're not looking at your passions as like frivolous interests that are just there to distract you in the sleep but instead, excuse me seeing your passions as something that holds these deeper values. And so I'm so grateful for all of my passions and my talents because as a small business owner, who is doing pretty much everything themselves. At this point, I have so many skill sets that lend themselves so beautifully to my business. One of my passions is writing well I get to write all the fucking time I'm writing emails I'm writing website copy, I'm you know, I'm writing and I'm writing a ton. I'm very passionate about using my voice. Well, I have a podcast and I love to use my voice in that way. You know, I don't know that I'm passionate about audio editing, but I'm skilled enough and know what good audio sounds like to be able to edit my own podcast, to be able to pick my own podcast music to know when it should fade in and fade out. My father is a music producer and I was I grew up around music. So I have that going for me. I also love to sing and I play the ukulele. And on my podcast, I release interlude episodes where I skip talking and I sing instead. Yeah, oh, that's just really fun for me. And I'm just like, hey, this week, I'm singing to you. His reminder, I'm multi passionate, I get to do what I want, you can do this to enjoy the song.
Joi
I share my music. You know, I am so passionate about graphic design and beautiful visuals and just creating beauty in the world. And that has lended itself amazingly, to my business, I design my own website, I do all of my graphics, I design my podcast cover art, I just launched a new free digital magazine called Thrive guide that's inspired by my coaching program. I do all of it, I love designing it. I love putting my written articles over there. So I mean, when I think about how my passions have shown up for me, a lot of it is like my business. You know, a lot of it is just my passion to materialize into this business that I absolutely love and adore. And I love what I do every single day. And I know it's so cliche, but it and I'm not gonna say it doesn't feel like work because selling and making sure that you have enough revenue and all those things that is work. But allowing my creativity to be so present in my business, I think is part of why my clients feel safe with me because they see that I'm not putting myself in a box. If I'm singing on my podcast and creating a digital magazine, you know, then they can see that I've given myself a lot of permission.
Katelyn:
Yeah. Like, it sounds like you've gotten to this point where you're just unapologetic about who you are. And the more you embrace your authenticity on a daily basis and trust that the the Freer you get to be in what you create and what you put your attention to, would you say that's true? Oh, yeah.
Joi
100%. Because I mean, you could say I'm teaching prioritization and focus, and I am. But underneath that is radical self-acceptance, like choosing that as a multi-passionate, you deserve to learn a way to prioritize that was created specifically for you by another multi-passionate person, you're only going to say yes to that experience, if you already are like, I'm multi passionate, and I deserve this flavor of support. Yeah, I deserve support that was created by someone who's like me. For me, I'm not going to go and try to learn from a standard time management guru who's just going to talk to me at a time block or whatever, right, like so when my clients say yes, or even before they say yes, maybe they're just listening to the podcast and starting to implement some stuff there. But with every moment of like, spending some time with me, there is a seed planted of radical self-acceptance and empowerment, because if you don't believe that you deserve to be served and supported as a multi-passionate person, my work won't even appeal to you. Yeah, like you will not even stay, you know, you'll be like that. Now, this isn't for me. And I'm sure there are people who've been turned off by my work, because they think like being multi-passionate is an excuse, or it's just a joke or whatever. And that's fine, because I'm not for them. Right. But you're absolutely right. It's just been. I think I sort of, I mean, I guess if I'm thinking about, you know, back to that moment in my 20s, my decision was, I'm going to accept that I'm multi-passionate, and the very next decision was, and I'm going to start a blog. So I kind of always needed something to channel it into, well, I think it's the snowball.
Katelyn:
It sounds like it's this really deep belief system that you're speaking about for yourself and really instilling this in the clients that you support. And the example that keeps coming up in my mind and hearing you say all this is your mom, having that conversation with you? And I'm sure it probably wasn't just one conversation, but just the empowerment that really came up in your story around how she laid this rock-solid foundation for you or helped you lay that for yourself rather. Which god that's so powerful because that really does. You know, we're talking about body image in that example, but that goes way beyond your physical skin. That's your mom saying, Hey, you get to be whoever you want to be. And you don't have to apologize. is for it. You don't have to please anybody else for it you do you unapologetically. And, really with this intention and self-trust that that's at least what's coming up as I'm hearing you share all this. Mm hmm.
Joi
And another thing that my mom really instilled in me was to speak up for myself and to have a voice. And I remember being maybe like 1112, you know, the age where like, you get really opinionated. Somewhere around there. Yeah. And I remember my mom saying to me, you know, if you don't like a rule that I set, or you don't like something that I say, I want you to tell me. And she positioned it in a way that was like, I'm an only child, right? So that's another big part of my life that we didn't really talk about, but I'm sure has impacted all of this as well. So she would tell me, you know, you don't have a brother or a sister at school to stick up for you, you have to know how to speak up for yourself. So she would say to practice at home with me. If there's something that I say that you don't agree with, I want you to tell me, she's like, it might not always go your way, because I'm still your mom. But I want you to be able to use your voice. And I'm sure there were times when she regretted that when I had a little too much sass, or whatever. But my mom really made it so safe for me to use my voice. And when I tell you that, there's no greater gift my mother has given me than that. I am very assertive, I have been able to speak up for myself in so many different scenarios. I know how to communicate my needs, clearly. And that is from practicing as a kid with my mom. Yeah. And having her tell me like, this is important. It is important for you to know how to speak up for yourself, it is important for you to know how to advocate for yourself, and not just telling me that and then telling me to be quiet all the time, right? Like not creating this, this hypocritical relationship around that advice, but telling me that and then embodying that by saying, you can see you can talk back to me because I want you to use your voice, but just know it might not go your way.
Katelyn:
That level of respect- Yes, what a gift. And I'm sure that comes through with the clients that you support as well too, and, and how you empower them. And I think that is I love that you use the word practice because I feel like communication skills require so much practice and repetition. And it's difficult a lot of times too, because like, like you're using in this example, your mom set the expectation that Hey, speak your mind, it might not go according to how you want it. And it might be really tough getting the feedback that I'm going to say as a mom, but it takes practice. And it takes like that physical skill or that emotional skill building, that it sounds like you were able to cultivate and no I'm sure can really create for your containers effortlessly. Joy, let's talk about mental health. Because I know that this is also something that you're passionate about. And an area that I think most multi-passionate creatives run into and are perplexed by so my first question that's kind of brewing in my mind is have you ever hit burnout before? When do you know you're headed in that direction with all of these things that you're passionate about and interested in and getting your hands into and just managing your time and whatnot? What? How do you keep a pulse on on burnout?
Joi
Yeah, I've definitely hit burnout before and it came from feeling like being multi passionate was a verb. Let me explain what I mean. So he's, so remember how I was saying, Oh, I was like, I was doing photography. And I had an Etsy shop. And I had this and I had that. So I did that for a while. But I slowly started to put things down. Because it was a lot. It was a lot for me to maintain all of it at once and kind of have multiple projects in the same stage at one time. Now I know that it's I can definitely do multiple things like I am now. For example, I have a podcast and I have my digital magazine, and I have my coaching program. Let's just use those three for like this example. Well, my coaching program, mainly what I do now is I show up twice a month, like bi weekly and I coach my clients. That's the main thing I do. I'm not building the program that's already done. I'm not scheduling out my community posts that was done in advance by an assistant that I had, you know, I'm not I'm not Like, it takes a lot less energy. But when I was building the program, when I was like creating the coursework that my students go through, when I was figuring out how I was going to teach this method, I took a break from my podcast to do that. I was like, okay, season one done, I'm going to build this program now that I came back to my podcast for season two. And I was like, Hey, everyone, we're back. And also, I have a new program. And that works out for me. But before, I didn't know how to do that, this is what I teach now, because it changed my whole life. And it made me enjoy being multi passionate. And it made me feel so empowered. But before I didn't know how to do that, right. So I definitely hit burnout. And I remember feeling afraid to stop any of my projects. Because I thought that from the outside looking in, people would be judging me and thinking, but I thought you're multi passionate? Why can't you do all these things at the same time. And I had to have a heart to heart with myself. And I came to the realization that I don't have anything to prove. Be multi passionate, for me is a way of life, I could have one project that I'm working on, that I'm focused on, and use so many of my different passions in that one project, that I'm still showing up as the multi passionate human being that I am. Yeah. And so I had to realize that I didn't want to trade one extreme for another, I had already decided I wasn't going to choose one thing, that I wasn't going to fall into that and feel like that was the only path for me. But what I ended up doing was going to the other extreme and feeling like I had to do everything very publicly, to prove, look, I'm multi passionate, and it's working for me or whatever. So once I hit burnout, and for me burnout, the way I describe burnout, is you're so exhausted, that if someone walks into the room and says, Hey, you know what you want to just give up and I'll just take all this away from you. Like you just won't have a business anymore. Let's just just give it up. I can take this from you. In that moment. You're like, you know what, here you go. Yeah, that to me is burnout. You're like, yeah, take it. I don't mean yes, anymore.
Katelyn:
I hear a lot of the example of like, I'm just gonna go work at a bar in Mexico.
Joi
Yeah, you're just like, You know what? It was even start this, but I don't want to do any of this. And so, you know, I definitely have reached that edge. I will say I've only been burnt out one time. And that's because once I hit that rock bottom, I was like, never again.
Katelyn:
So what did you do differently? What How did you get through that time? How did you How long did it take to recover from that burnout? How did you take care of yourself and your business during that time? And what did what did you really make sure you were doing differently going forward?
Joi
Well, at that time, I didn't have the business model that I have. Now, I didn't have like a solid flagship coaching program. This is still pretty new, my coaching program, so I didn't have all that but what happened during that time was I learned my human design and learning my human design. So anyone who learns their human design and who especially who's a manifester, or a projector or reflector, and he designed with an open sacral, they're gonna immediately be like, holy shit, okay, I need way more rest than I'm giving myself. And so when I learned that I'm a manifester. And I learned that I'm here to initiate but not necessarily have this steady, constant rhythm of like working all the time. And that is not I'm not I don't have a terrible work. I used to think I had a horrible work ethic, like what's wrong with me? How come I get excited in the beginning, and then I just want to like lay on the couch for three days, what's going on? And I realized I have to rest that's a part of my process I'm creating while I'm resting without even realizing it. Like that's just who I am. So learning my human design and then making the decision to live my life by my design, to experiment with my design. This is why in my program, all my clients don't know human design because it was so impactful for me. So that really changed everything for me. And because I now know my human design, and I understand you know, my how to make decisions based on that and everything. It has just eliminated a lot of challenges in the areas of being burnt out because I'm able to say no to things I create a schedule for myself. For example, one person might feel like in order to be successful business owner, you want to have a booked out Under, there are a lot of people who, especially in the coaching industry, that's an indicator of success to them. That means that they're doing like discovery calls, or they're having, what do they call the consultations or whatever, with potential clients. And so having a booked out calendar for them is like, yes, things are working. And if there's no calls in the calendar, they start to panic and feel like oh, my gosh, what's going on, I don't have any inquiries. For me, if I have too many calls on my calendar, I become angry, my manifest, your anger starts bubbling up, because I'm not here to like, interrupt myself by being on a bunch of calls. That's not how my energy works. I have weeks during the month where I have calls a couple of days during the week, and I have weeks during the month where I don't do any calls at all. I have days during the week that are just absolutely off limits for having any calls because I need uninterrupted time to create. So understanding these things about myself and then ruthlessly holding those boundaries. And again, it's like my mom teaching me to stand up for myself, I can hold a boundary, I can tell people, no, I can set a boundary and say, that's not gonna work for me. Or I can set a boundary with myself and say, I'm not doing more than two calls in one day, because it's exhausting. And it burns me out, it'll start to leak at my energy in a way that doesn't work. So really, it wasn't like one big change that I made. But it was a series of becoming really curious about myself. Allowing human designed to be the path through which I explore that curiosity, making decisions based on what I was learning about myself. And sometimes, you know, to be honest, sometimes I'm going back on those decisions, right? Like, oh, okay, I can do three calls this day, it won't be that bad. And then doing that, and then feeling okay, yeah, that was bad. I'm tired. Yeah, I don't want to do that again. So some of it is not holding the boundary, feeling what that felt like, and then doubling down the next time. I don't want to give off this image of like, Oh, it's just easy for me. And I'm perfect, because that's not true. But I just think of it as like, almost like collecting data, like, okay, when do I feel the best, I feel the best one, I don't have a bunch of calls. And I have spaciousness to create. And then I have like one really meaningful call. At the end of the week or something, you know, or like, like my call with you this week. This is my only call this week. And I'm like, so lucky. And the only reason that we're on this call this week is because we rescheduled because it's a new moon week, and I actually have this blocked up on my calendar for no calls, but be rescheduled. And that's why this is the only call I have this week. Yeah. So, you know, I know this is sort of like a roundabout answer. But it's hard for me to answer this in a way that's kind of like overarching because I know individual,
Katelyn:
it's, well, I think I think you're spot on, it sounds really clear to me, and I've been hearing you accurately, it really just sounds like for anybody who's listening, who might be interpreting what you're saying and trying to digest it for themselves. It's just knowing yourself and really approaching your life and your work schedule and your creativity with a really curious lens about when when you work best how you work best. The amount, like the volume that you're speaking of, and all of these things, I think that it's it's so natural for us to just be thrown into kind of a copy and pasted version of work, because that's just the industrial version. We've been taught from a really early age, most of us at least. And so being in a place where you're actually stepping back and getting very curious about, okay, if it's not this nine to five, or this booked out calendar that I've been taught and what is it for me? How do I work best? Where do I get my energy? How do I get my rest? How do I really produce effectively from that place of want and desire and passion versus should and obligation and resentment? Am I hearing you accurately around that?
Joi
Absolutely. And there is one more thing I want to add as well. Is that for me with having an open sacral and please go listen to please go listen to Caitlin's Human Design episode everyone who's like what are you doing now? Just make sure you go listen. But so then I'll put it in layman's terms. So as someone who so human design manifester, one of the biggest realizations for this particular design is that we're here to initiate and not necessarily to like work in the traditional way. So we're here to kick things off. And then it's helpful if we have like a community or a team or an assistant or someone who can kind of help us keep things going. But part of that is there's this desire, through conditioning to want to always To do more, or to feel like we're not doing enough, right? Because it's like, how do you just be okay with like, Well, I started this amazing thing, and I told people about it, and they're gonna carry it the rest of the way, that's really, really tough. It takes some true like practice and experimentation to let that sink in. So alternatively, when you're operating out of conditioning, there is this default of like, more and more and more and more need to create more need to keep going, keep going, which if you're a generator, or manifesting generator, or another type that might be really, really accurate for you where you can create more and more and more and keep going, because that feels good to you. For me, if I start feeling like I need to do more and more and more and more, that's a sign that my conditioning is kicking in. That's a sign for me to pause and go Hold on. I'm feeling like I'm not doing enough. And then I need to do more. And it doesn't feel grounded. It feels frantic. It feels like Okay, wait, like, all right, I didn't get enrollments this week, let me switch something up. What can I do? What can I change, I'm gonna do morning, do more. And so a mantra that I have embraced. This is, this is so fresh. This is this week, Katelyn, like, at the top of the week, I had this weird feeling that I'm not doing enough. And I need to do more. And I'm about to go on maternity leave. And I need to like come up with some kind of like, I was just spiraling. I was like, What is going on. And so I had to take a breath. And I gave myself a new thought. And that is, everything I'm already doing is already working. Everything I'm already doing is already working. My job is to stick to the plan and continue on the path that I set out for myself, to give it an opportunity to work even better. I don't need to add anything more. Everything I'm doing is enough. You know, we've all heard that you are enough, right? But for me really saying what I'm doing is already working. Yeah. And then that helps the universe go like, Oh, okay, let me show you evidence that what you're doing is already working. And then things just start working, right. And it's not about needing to do more. So I'll just say that that has really helped me curve burnout, as well is saying like, I'm already doing it. I'm already doing it. It's not about doing more or going faster, because I'm already doing it. And you know, keeping track of like, Yeah, I did a podcast episode came out this week, I had a great call with my clients. This week, I connected with someone this week, and keeping track of what's already working, is so helpful.
Katelyn:
I love that and giving yourself that permission to celebrate what is working and what you've done and what you've accomplished. And even if it's not an actual metric, even if it's just I got up this morning. And I'm I'm allowed to celebrate myself because I'm a human being and I have a heartbeat. And you're also doing way more than that as well, too. But that just that route, that radical permission that is such a through line for you joy is so it's so empowering. So I'm really grateful that you're sharing all of that. Okay, before we wrap up, I can't let you leave without hearing what your favorite way to make a decision is because I think that's one of the things that can really paralyze a lot of entrepreneurs and multi passionate creatives, whether you are an entrepreneur or not, entrepreneur or not is how do I know what to start? Or what to stop? Or what to say yes to? Or what to say no to? And do you have a favorite decision making tool in your toolkit?
Joi
Well, shocker- it’s human design.
Katelyn:
I love it. Okay, how do you use it?
Joi
So in human design, Each type has what's called an authority or your inner authority. And that essentially tells you how to make decisions. So my authority is called Emotional authority. And what that means is, if I'm really excited about something in the moment, that's actually not the time for me to make a decision. I yeah, I get to ride an emotional wave. So I get to feel the highs of it, and the lows of it. And then when I come to neutral, that's when I make a decision. And so my mantra for this type of decision-making is taking my time saves me time. Ooh, so good. When I take my time to make a decision, I can avoid lots and lots of mess cleaning up later. And another way to put this, which we do in my program, this is something that my clients and I kind of came up with together is I date my ideas. So good. So that can literally look like so For example, I saw I mentioned this and I didn't get a chance to talk about it. But the digital magazine that I came out with, I dated that idea for about three to four weeks before I said, Yes. And what that looks like, was me feeling into what it would feel like to have this, was it going to be too much, right was adding just adding something else to my plate that wasn't necessary? What was his purpose, asking those kinds of questions, but then I also like, let myself be in the idea, I let myself date it. So I started looking at like, templates that I might want to use. And I designed a bunch of covers for it to kind of just get a feel for what it would be like I went swimming at a hotel pool. And as I was swimming, I was just thinking about this magazine. And so I got out and instead of writing down ideas, all of that happened before I even said yes to it. So I think that sometimes we feel like we have to say yes, and then especially it's multi-passionate to prove ourselves by committing right away. And you don't have to do that you can date the idea, you can give it some time, and sometimes taking your time will save you time. So whereas I might have thought, Okay, I'm just going to do this digital magazine series, forevermore, I'm just going to do a monthly series, I decided I was going to do a 10-part series. And that really helped me because I realized, great, now there's a beginning to this project and an end. Oh, I love that. After I have the 10. It doesn't mean people can't still subscribe, because they're going to start at number one. And that's 10 months of nurturing from me. Like, how cool is that. And I only have to create them each one time. So I came up with that. But it took time to get there. At first I was like, I'll just make one. And then I was like, oh, that's kind of boring. I don't want to just do one. And then I was like, well, I'll just do them every month. And then I was thinking, well, that has no, no, that's not gonna work. It so I landed on 10. And even now I'm like, Why did I just say five? But but you know, I mean, I said 10. And, and so that's what I'm gonna do. But yeah, that's my favorite way to make decisions is to slow the whole process down.
Katelyn:
Yeah, shut down. So counterintuitive for what so many of us are taught and can really feel uncomfortable for so many of us because it bumps up against so many belief systems and having to prove ourselves like you mentioned before, but that also is a through line that's really showing up in your story to joy, just this. This getting away from needing to prove yourself to anybody, even if it does feel triggering at some times, but really just coming back to your own self trust and your own foundation and making decisions from that place as well too. And that is always going to be in the best service for yourself, which will trickle out for the best service of others. I have no doubt at all. I could talk to you for like probably five more hours. But I want to be mindful of of our time. And I know your your your energy, especially being pregnant and whatnot. So wrapping up, where can everybody find you and hang out with you. We'll link everything in the show notes. But I just I appreciate you and would love for everybody to get into your world.
Joi
Yeah, thank you so much for this conversation. This was really refreshing. And I appreciate being able to start from the body and then connect it to so many other things. So thank you so much for facilitating this conversation, you can come hang out with me on my podcast. So if you're already a podcast listener, that's a great place to come and spend some time together. My podcast is called multi passionate mastery. And it is on all streaming services and also at multi passionate mastery.com. If you are curious about the whole concept of creating clear priorities as a multi passionate, and you want to learn my signature method for that I have a free training that I would love your listeners to have access to. So we'll link to that in the show notes. But the website for that is multi passionate mastery.com/free. And there you can learn my holistic approach to cultivating clarity I do talk about human design in that training, and then how to create priorities and focus from there specifically as a multi passionate person. And if you're curious about this digital magazine that I kept bringing up, then subscribe. It's free. It's really really fun. You will see so many of my passions come to life through this magazine and I really hope that that's inspiring for you if you're a fellow multi passionate and so we will link to that in the show notes so that you can subscribe website is multi passionate mastery.com/thrive-guide And I think that those are those are great places. I'm not on Instagram, I left Instagram. So oh my god. I know we shouldn't talk. Okay,
Katelyn:
We've got to do a part two let's Yes. Oh Let's wrap it up right there. Right there. If you're open to it, you're definitely coming back on the show.
Joi
I'd love to talk about it.
Katelyn:
I mean, we'll do a whole. We'll do a whole unsafety Yeah, exactly. Okay. Damn, I wish we had gotten into that next time. Yes.
Joi
Yeah, let's book it soon. And we'll do it. Yeah, yeah,
Katelyn:
You are such a delight. And I truly just appreciate all of the magic that you shared in this conversation and the person that you are and the work that you are just facilitating in the world. Thank you so much. We will definitely be in touch soon. And we'll link everything in the show notes so everyone can connect with you and follow along your journey. But thank you so much.
Joi
Sounds good. Thank you so much for having me, Katelyn.
