Episode 105: Staying Motivated in Movement (And Life!) with Kim Hagle
Episode 105: Staying Motivated in Movement (And Life!) with Kim Hagle
In this episode we sit down with....Kim Hagle.
Kim Hagle is Certified Personal Trainer, Registered Holistic Nutritionist, mom of four and founder of Radiant Vitality Wellness. Kim hosts The Joyful Movement Show Podcast and through her signature movement + mindset program, Discover Joyful Movement, she helps women find what moves them by disconnecting exercise from weight loss and instead connecting to their intuition to choose movement as a form of self care.
Kim’s personal journey to self acceptance has led her to do this work. Radiant Vitality was born as a result of Kim’s personal experiences and observations of how the fitness industry fails women by idealizing the thin body. Kim believes that movement is an innate human need and is passionate about helping women care for their physical, mental, emotional and spiritual body through movement that feels amazing.
Kim’s gentle but empowering approach, inspires women to examine the limiting beliefs that are holding them back from the healthy lifestyle they desire. Through joyful movement, intuitive eating and mindset coaching, she helps them to cultivate lasting motivation by chasing overall wellbeing beyond the scale.
In this conversation we talk about:
Kim’s personal body image story & her journey as a personal trainer.
Shifting from diet mindset to intuitive eating mindset.
Practical tools for creating sustainable and joyful movement practices.
Thought work that applies to our relationship with our bodies, movement, and anything in life.
The 4 essential pillars for successful motivation (and the main 2 distractors!).
How to know when your relationship with movement has become disordered.
Connect with our guest...
Resources we mention in this episode…
Free Resource: The Motivation Secret; the simple mindset shift that will get you off the start-stop cycle for good.
Ready to heal your relationship with food + body?
Book your FREE Body Trust Breakthrough Consult
Grab your FREE Intuitive Eating Workshop
Get weekly email support from me to help you heal your relationship with food + body image
TRANSCRIPTION Episode 105: Staying Motivated in Movement (And Life!) with Kim Hagle
Katelyn:
Kim Hagle Hi. Whoa, that was an Oprah voice. And I'm not mad about it. I'm so excited to have you here. Thank you so much for showing up and spending the hour plus with us today.
Kim:
Oh, I'm so excited to be here. Thank you so much for having me. I'm a fan of your show. And it's an honor to be here with you.
Katelyn:
Yes, I love that so much. I can't wait to dive in. Let's just do it. What's your first body awareness moment? Kim, I know you just said you listened to the show. So you have an idea of this question. What does that look like for you that moment where you realized, I'm in a body? And apparently this means something in the world that I'm living in? Just paint the picture for us? And also, how did that moment shape Your Body Image story, your relationship with yourself?
Kim:
Yeah, I love that you asked this question. And when I listened to your show I, I relate so much to all of the different stories. So I did think about this a lot in preparation. And I can honestly say I don't really remember a time in my life where I wasn't aware of my body, or where I didn't judge my body in some way, shape or form. From the time that I was even a little child, I remember food being restricted, like I was told, Don't eat so much, you're gonna get fat, or my mom would use the term, two ton Tess. It's so awful. I hate that. But she'd be like, stop with the cookies, you're gonna turn into two ton Tess. And then my dad had this little rhyme that went along with that. And so I remember from a very early age, like developing the belief that fat was bad, and you didn't want to do that. And the way to avoid that was by watching what you ate. So fast forward even into starting school. And I'm not sure if in even kindergarten, I was aware, but definitely in my early years of school, I was very much aware that I was larger than the other girls. And for the sake of your listeners who can't see our faces, I want to just say, like, I do live in a straight size body always have. But I'd say I'm at the larger end of the size spectrum. I described myself as having a sort of solid, muscular build. So even as a child, I was aware that I was bigger than the other girls and felt like, there was something wrong with that, that they were better than me. They were prettier than me. They were more valuable than me. And I was never an athletic kid, I hated athletics. I was slow. I was clumsy. I sucked at all the sports. And I got picked on for that. And I even at that young age believed that it was my body's fault that it was because I was bigger that there that that was the reason that I wasn't able to keep up with the other kids or do things that the other kids were able to do. And my mom would always try to like force me to get outside and play sports and do all of the things. And I just remember a lot of talk about how I needed to watch what I ate, and move more to avoid becoming fat. And in hindsight, I know like my mom does live in a larger body. And I'm sure that a lot of her comments were coming from a place of protection and trying to help me avoid some stigma that perhaps she faced living in a larger body. I even have a recollection of, I think I was maybe in grade one or two. My mom was pregnant and came into the school to volunteer. And after she left some of the kids in my class were like making fun of her and calling her names and comparing her to I can't remember if it was a cow or a pig or something. But it was an animal and I was so hurt. And so offended and I was just so sad that they would talk about my mom that way. And I didn't know what to do with those feelings. So when I went home from school that day, I told my mom about this hoping that she'd helped me feel better. But it ended up making her very upset. And that was a moment where I realized like, Okay, this is definitely not okay to be fat. And when we talk about it hurts people's feelings. So I learned to keep quiet. So that's kind of all the backstory but the one moment that really, I guess my big body awareness moment, that moment when I realized there was my body meant something and I needed to do something about it was when I was about 12 years old. My aunt who I really looked up to she was like my friend. At least she didn't have kids of her own and she really doted on us. She had been away on a vacation somewhere warm and came back with presence for me and my brothers. And she brought me this bathing suit. And I guess I was 12. And it was, I think, like 1989. So styles were like something, something else back then. But this bathing suit was a one piece but it had the middle cut out. So like the tummy and low back were exposed. And I got this bathing suit and I was just so thrilled and so flattered because it was like my first like big girl bathing suit. I was never allowed to wear a two piece or show my midriff so I felt really special that she had bought this for me. And I like remember looking at my mom being like, Is this okay? Am I allowed to wear this and she was like, Sure it's great. So I went to change, I went to try it on and I put it on, I was just like, pleased as punch. I just couldn't believe that. I had this and I was so thrilled to wear it and walked out in the living room to show it to my aunt and my mom. And they turned to each other and started snickering and whispering to each other. And I was like, What are you laughing at what's so funny? And my aunt said, Oh, it's just that you have the little pooch, the little family pooch like we all have. And I was just mortified. Like, I think I just don't think I cried in the moment. I think I hid how embarrassed and ashamed I felt. But I changed out of that bathing suit. And I never put it on again. I never wore a bikini up until I don't know maybe a couple of years ago when I did my own body image work. But that was the moment where I realized there's something wrong with my body. And I've got to do something about this. So I hid my stomach. I started restricting food, not with any consistency, but I did start to be more conscious of what I ate. I still didn't do anything athletic because I hated sports and thought I sucked at it. And I wasn't willing to do that. But I really manipulated food. And when I formally started like dieting in my 20s it was never I never had a goal weight in mind. My goal was always to flatten my stomach, fix the stomach. It became an obsession like it gradually progressed from we'll try my first diet to trying the next one to like, you know, eventually adding in working out and like it just was this like, snowball effect that consumed the next. I don't know, 15 or more years of my life. And I mean, though I never got diagnosed with an eating disorder, I would definitely say that I had disordered habits around food and exercise and even at the lowest weight even when I was like, killing it with you know, eating quote, perfectly clean and working out intensely. I never found I never found that flat stomach. And you know, and never lost that. That feeling of shame that there was something wrong with my body. Until much more recently until I learned about health at every size and did my own body image work. But yeah, that was that was the moment.
Katelyn:
Wow. Wow, Kim, what a powerful story. And it also makes so much sense as well to just the setup for this moment, and also your journey, you know, all of this. All of this stigma and fear and emotional protection that was being reinforced in your environment growing up, which I, I think so many of us can relate to. And it's, you know, it's something that is so interesting when we talk about body image because I don't think that we talk about that enough just how important our environment is in terms of how we feel about our body. I mean, I heard you so clearly when you We're telling your story about being in the bathing suit and how you were feeling before coming into wherever your mom and your aunt were. And just feeling confident and feeling almost neutral. You know, like, there's nothing to worry about, like, I just like this bathing suit. I'm not even concerned with my body. This is awesome. And then getting that feedback about your body. Oh, man, I yeah, I mean, it's. And also, it's, it's not to blame your mom, or, either. Yeah, and I know you're not doing that. But I think that's also really important to acknowledge as well, too, because you already mentioned that, like, they have their own lived experience and their own bodies. And from what you mentioned, in the classroom, just the messages that you receive from your classmates about your mom's body and how she received the story that you told her, it seems like there's a lot of pain, and it makes a lot of sense. And I can just, I can so understand that I'm not a mom, and I know you are but wanting to protect your children from the world, from any pain or any discomfort. And it makes a lot of sense. It's that very primal protective mechanism that I think so many of us have, intuitively within us. And that compounded with the messages of diet culture, and that phobia and weight stigma and all of these things. It's it's just a snowball effect of a lot of a lot of complication and disorders, like you're saying,
Kim:
Mm hmm. It's interesting how one one moment can change the course of a person's life, right? And how that that bathing suit moment really influenced the next 15 years of my life. But when you say, you know, you're not to blame my aunt or my mom, I totally don't. And I don't even think they would remember that conversation. If we talked about it today, right? Like, I'm sure it meant very little to them in that moment.
Katelyn:
But yeah, yeah, I'm sure. And what's so interesting is they probably have their own moment to that, when they receive that feedback. The other person, probably, they don't remember it either. And I think that's what's so interesting about our own lived experiences and our bodies. It is really interpretation and the single moments that really shape and inform our beliefs that can just be such a tiny moment in time. So when you were going through just restriction, like you said, and then more into the diet, culture world, obviously. Were you talking about that with anybody? Like, were you actually having conversations with your mom about trying to actually change your body? Or was the shame kind of keeping it more on the secret side for you?
Kim:
No, I was open about it. And the interesting thing was, I think it was weightwatchers I participated in after one of my kids was born. I can't remember which one. But mum would babysit for me while I went to Weight Watchers meetings. And she kind of like, why are you doing that? You don't need to do that. And I just remember thinking it was so paradoxical, right? Like being raised all my life to like, not get fat, you know, control your weight. And then when I like, was dieting, I was like, why are you doing that? I don't understand.
Katelyn:
Mm hmm. Yeah, it's so interesting. It's like when it comes down to self worth, and just making decisions for ourselves based on what we want. And that becoming entangled with how we want to please the people around us who we love the most. Like, that makes a lot of sense. Were you able to eventually have conversations with your mom about just what you've gone through? And I know you are pretty public with your story at this point. What is that relationship like look like with your family today?
Kim:
I'm just tell you the truth. No, it's not really something that we talk about. I think it's still a very sensitive subject and I don't I don't think my mum's at a stage of wanting to you know, talk about her own internalized fat phobia is no it's just not something we've really talked about she she knows that I've gone through this journey of you know, stopping dieting and transforming my business to the non diet approach and that I help people with their body image and she's she's supportive of that but like, talking about the, like our stories leading up to it is no, not something that we really do.
Katelyn:
Yeah, I mean, it's a difficult conversation, it also requires the other person being ready and you can't force that. And you can't control that. And that's really such a powerful example of just being in your own journey, staying in your own lane, showing up for yourself and just loving the people around you. You know, wherever they're at, without judgment, or, or anything, which it sounds like, exactly what you're doing. So tell us about how you got into a place where you were able to feel more at peace with your body and your relationship with food.
Kim:
Yeah, well, it took a long time, I guess if I can backtrack a little how I ended up in the fitness world in the first place, because that kind of leads into to my journey to body neutrality. Back after I'd had my third child, so I have four children. But after I'd had my third one, she's now almost 11. That's when I was really, I'd say, at a really low point with my body image. And I had quit working outside of the home. So I was a stay at home mom. And I really kind of was struggling with my identity. Like, I didn't kind of know what I wanted to be home with my kids, but I really didn't know how to settle into that role. So that kind of manifested as body image stuff, right, like, as we often do, we kind of blame our body for all of the other discomforts that we're feeling in our life. So I really wanted to lose weight, but I was dieting so much by this point, and realize that they didn't work long term. And I didn't want to, I didn't want to go on another diet, I didn't want to do Weight Watchers, again, or any of the other things. So I hired a personal trainer myself. And she came to my home, and she worked with me, taught me exercises while my kids were napping, and she was so wonderful. And for the first time in my life, I felt like, I, my body was strong, and I was capable, and I liked doing things with my body. And as someone who hated sports, and was never athletic growing up, it was like, I felt really empowered. And it was just, I feel connected to my body, and like, just so accomplished. So that very quickly turned into an obsession because, you know, I had all this story in this drama of not being athletic, not being good at sports, and I kind of had a mission of proving that wrong. So fitness kind of became my life, and I did lose a bunch of weight. And of course, I added dieting on to it because like, you know, that's how you get even better results. And then people started really giving me a lot of validation, like I was being told that I looked so good, and what an inspiration and look at all the things that you're doing and I kind of liked it to be honest. So because of that, I thought, Well, I'm just gonna go and become a personal trainer because I'm like, working out is kind of becoming my full time job anyways, it's like taking over my life, so why wouldn't I like turn it into my business and start getting paid for it. So I did and that's kind of how I ended up in the fitness industry. And of course, for the first, I don't know, seven years of my career as a personal trainer, it was very diet culture-y like I was trying to help people lose weight just like I did. And that worked for a while until it just didn't anymore as we all know sustained intentional weight loss is impossible and we all regain the weight at some point I didn't know at the time that it was that that that was the statistic that 95% of people regain the weight I thought that I was doing something wrong. My life took some pretty big turns I went through a divorce eventually remarried down the line and then we had a fourth child who has Down syndrome special needs and through all of that, I was not able to maintain my weight loss but I thought it was my fault all the stress that I was going through so I ended up leaving the fitness industry because I felt like a fraud it's like I I'm no longer this picture of health or this inspirational role model this people look up to I don't have the like, perfectly cut tone chiseled body not winning races anymore like you know I'm a total fraud basically like I'm gonna just walk away from fitness. So I did and eventually kind of fell into intuitive eating and joyful movement all on my own because because I had to like I couldn't maintain that Ideal anymore, I couldn't restrict I couldn't force myself to do two hours of exercise because I didn't have the mental capacity for it, it just was not something that I wanted to do. So, it was in my two year hiatus from the fitness industry that I sort of started exploring intuitive eating and learning about the non diet approach. And that's when I discovered Stephanie Dodier Going Beyond the Food, her podcast, and eventually ended up taking her professional mentorship program. And like, my mind was just blown. I was like, I never even crossed my mind that fitness didn't have to be about weight loss, or weight maintenance or burning calories. It just was like, that's what you do. When you work out. It's about changing your body. So as I healed my own relationship to movement, and began to discover joyful movement for myself, I realized how much I missed the fitness industry, and how much I like that feeling that I had when I first discovered it of feeling strong and confident and accomplished in my body. And that's really what it's all about. It's not about these external body chasing goals. And so that's what kind of kind of brought me back. And that's how I operate my business now.
Katelyn:
Wow, that is, your story's just so powerful. I'm obsessed with it. And there's just so many takeaways and lightbulb moments and just, I think, I certainly feel validated in hearing it. And I know that so many people listening well. I'm really curious about your, your internal path with shifting from the diet mindset to the intuitive eating mindset as a fitness professional, because I think that one of the biggest questions and stigmas and conversations when the world sees somebody making a change like that is, well, they just can't cut it, or they're just giving up or they're just, you know, they're giving up on their health, or they're just being lazy, or whatever type of bullshit messaging is circulating. So what type of internal beliefs were you bumping up against, if any? And how did you get to a place where you felt confident in this decision?
Kim:
Mm hmm. And you're so right, Katelyn. And actually, I have received that criticism like that has been said about me, and it hurts. But at the same time, I guess my internal process is, I really had to get honest about what restriction and over exercising was doing to me, like, how it was not serving me, right? It was not healthy. It's really unfortunate that the world sees health as thinness, right, and that when we compliment someone on their thin body, and we just assume they're healthy, because of the way they look, it's so damaging. Because there was nothing healthy about what I was doing. When I was in that smaller body, right? I was counting every morsel of things that went in my mouth. I was like, oh, gosh, there was a list a mile long of all the things that I wouldn't eat like, no, there was no sugar, no grains, nothing artificial that you couldn't pronounce no alcohol, like carbs, blah, blah. And then I went through phases where I was counting all my macros, like, oh, gosh, it was just, it was obsessive, like I would if friends invited me out, I would either decline the invitation, or I would check out the menu ahead of time to see if there was something that I could eat. And then I'd be the person sitting at the table going well, I'll have that. But could you put the dressing on the side and no croutons and like, you know, I had to list all of the restrictions. I'm sure it was no fun to go out with an exercise wise like I would do a workout in the morning before I ate and then I would see my clients and I would inevitably end up doing some workouts with them and then I would have a weightlifting workout in the evening like it was no less than two hours of exercise a day. So you know when people criticize that, you know, you've just let yourself go. You can't cut it. You're right.
Katelyn:
I think that's so refreshing just hearing the details of your story because because that is, that's the thing, when people see this version of yourself, they're exposed to their interpretation of how you are keeping all of this up, which is very different than what is actually happening in your mind, and your body, and your emotional well being. And what's so uncomfortable for our brains during those times is receiving all the validation and all the praise, and all the reinforcement that you're doing something right, the disorder is right, because that's what this fucked up culture is setting as the the bar of health, the bar of success. Yeah, and whatever that looks like. And that's deeply uncomfortable, trying to untangle and just disassociate with this message that has been really handed down to you for years and years and years. For all of us. You know, we're talking about your story today. But I mean, this, this really influences all of us here in this community. So what steps did you take to get to a place where you were able to feel more confident about your decision in just really forming that belief that no, I can't cut it. This is not the version of health that I want for my life and actually, really being okay with labeling it as something that's disordered?
Kim:
Yeah. Fortunately, I did have the support of a coach, like I said, I worked with Stephanie Dodier. And she teaches the self coaching model, which is a tool from cognitive behavioral therapy, that really helps us see how our thoughts are influencing how we feel. So you know, when we don't, when we don't like our body, when we struggle with our body image, it's not because of the way our body looks, that we feel that way. It's because of the thoughts and limiting beliefs that we hold, and I had a lot of them around, you know, fat is bad, thin is better, you're not, you can't be pretty happy, healthy, successful, any of the good things in life in a larger body. And I really had to dig in, like really dig in and do the deep work about all of the things that I was believing about weight. And how, how I could feel about myself, or just detaching, I guess my worth, from how I looked, whether I'm thin, whether I'm fat, whether I'm somewhere in between my soul, my person doesn't change. And the truth of the matter is, I never found that self acceptance, and that confidence that I was searching for in my smaller body, either, right? So that helped that having that evidence of like, confidence doesn't come just, miraculously, when we lose weight, it's a result of that deep, deep belief work about who you are outside of your body. And I really, I really hadn't done a lot of that thought work before. Like, who am I actually, if I'm not my body?
Katelyn:
That's such a powerful question. Like for everybody listening, if you're able to take a note, write that down, who am I if I'm not my body, so much of our identity is wrapped up in our physical bodies. And I don't think that we get the encouragement enough to really detach from that and get to know ourselves on a more intimate level of who we are at the core of ourselves, of our soul, of our internal well being. I'm a big fan of thought work. Also, I think that is one of the quickest ways and what was ways because it does require a lot, a lot of unpacking and digging and really just like self reflection and nervous system processing and everything, but oh my gosh, it's one of the most sustainable ways that we can really start to transform and make a change. So how do you use this with clients? Now? Tell us a little bit about your new business and how you work with clients from a more joyful movement perspective, intuitive eating model, and also just the thought work that you bring into your clients around movement and exercise.
Kim:
Yeah. Such a good question. Um, so I mean, I'm still a certified personal trainer. I'm also a holistic nutritionist, and now I've added body image coach to the things that I do. But what is so beautiful about thought work is everybody struggles with motivation for movement, like, raise your hand, if you've never struggled with motivation, nobody put their hand up universally across the board. Everybody struggles with motivation. And we think that the answer to feeling motivated is like, Okay, try a new program or join a new gym, hire the personal trainer, so that they'll hold you accountable when you start to dwindle in your motivation or employee willpower, like schedule everything out in your, in your planner so that there's absolutely no chance that you can fail, right? But motivation is the feeling and our feelings are created by our thoughts. So as long as we hold negative thoughts about exercise, or about our body, or the two intertwined, like how the point of exercise is to change your body, as long as we're operating from that thought system, you will always struggle with motivation. So in doing thought work, when we're able to dig into like, what do you believe about exercise? What has been your previous experience with exercise? What perspective are you bringing to the table? What lies are you believing from FITS bow diet culture that cause you to think that if you know it's not hard, it's not effective, or you got to be sore after if you're not sweating, then it didn't count, or it's got to be a whole hour lifting weights at the gym. Like all these rules are really just thoughts. And they're influencing how you feel, right? They're making you feel inadequate, and like you're not good enough, and that if you can't do it perfectly, there's no point in doing it. Well, no wonder you feel unmotivated, when that's how you're thinking.
Katelyn:
I'm just writing this down, because our rules are just thoughts. And the thoughts are making you feel inadequate and unmotivated. Hmm, yes, yes, yes. Tell us more about this. Because I think this is going to be so helpful and illuminate so many blocks for so many people. So in terms of getting unstuck, or getting motivated. What are some of the best ways for somebody to begin doing that with their own personal movement practice? Where should people start?
Kim:
My favorite thing to talk about motivation is like, my favorite thing. So and the cool thing is that it's been very well studied in our industry, because everybody struggles with motivation. So there's been a lot of science on this topic. So there was a classic study done back in the 70s, called the self determination theory, and what they determined that there were three big factors that help people build that intrinsic motivation, which is that deep desire within us to do something just for the pure joy of doing it, where extrinsic motivation is like doing something for a reward. So the three things that help us build intrinsic motivation are liking the activity and feeling like we're good at it. So a sense of competence. Being surrounded by a supportive community and the word supportive is really important here because some fitness communities are not very supportive, if you know what I mean. And the third thing is so okay, I have to remember getting off track, liking what you're doing. Oh, yeah, having choices. Okay, so feeling empowered to do what you want to do what's best for your body in that moment. So competence, community, and having choices are the three things that help us build intrinsic motivation. And then a more recent study back in 2018, added a fourth factor, which is seeing some benefit of your movement practice, as far as like improved functional fitness or health. So you know, whether you're more flexible or more mobile or feeling stronger, or there's actually some health metrics that are changing, like maybe your blood pressure and blood sugar are starting to stabilize, those things are all motivating. But the one thing that is known to be a motivation killer, is focusing on weight loss or body shaping goals as your primary. Why for movement? Why? Why? Yeah, well, because whenever we're trying to change our body, they mean the belief system that's usually behind that is my body is not good enough as it is I need to fix it. And that leads to feelings of guilt and shame. And it's pretty hard to feel motivated when you're feeling crappy about yourself.
Katelyn:
Mm hmm. Yeah.
Kim:
Yeah. So and really that is like, what's the main messaging in the fitness industry? Right. Like I said up till a few years ago, it never even crossed my mind that you could engage with movement without having weight loss as a goal. And I was a personal trainer, like, soured, were taught, right? Like, we would have goal conversations with people like, oh, well, I want to get stronger. And bla bla bla bla bla, okay, well, how much weight do you want to lose? It's always, always about weight loss, right? And the silly thing is like, we have all of this research, we know that weight loss isn't a motivating thing. And yet, it's still we it seems like we can't have a conversation about fitness without it being part of the conversation. Yeah, absolutely.
Katelyn:
Agreed. And I think this is a, there's, there's so much to unpack here. Because I think that because of diet, culture, and all of the years of reinforcement around weight loss messaging around movement, and just food in general, I mean, we get it from every single angle, we have our own lived experience with this fat phobia, fat bias, all of this exists. And we have so many examples of this existing and so whether you are in a fat body, whether you're not in and fearing of becoming kind of that body, it's it's just such a property. So pervasive, it's so common. And so even if people are wanting to move their body and claiming that it's in the name of health, yeah, there is almost always that lingering hope that their body will change or weight loss will happen. And so how do you address that? And how do you address that with your clients? And how can somebody start addressing that for themselves, and really just getting honest about that? Because I think that's really important. From the study that you're sharing. If the motivation for weight loss and body shaping is present, that's the one determinant of the motivation being ineffective. And so if that's constantly riding shotgun that's always going to interfere with our goals. Just Yes, scientifically speaking, or am I hearing you accurately?
Kim:
100%? Yeah. 100%. And so I guess how I work with my clients is, well, first of all, I teach them that, like, I make sure that, like, they know the same science that I know. So they have that information. And yet, that's not enough to change. Years of programming. Sure. So they're like, well, but I still want to lose weight. Right? That's, that's fine. What I teach them initially, like there's a lot to unpack, like you say in it, it can take months or years to fully ditch the diet mentality, but we start where they're at. And I like to use the word and as a bridge. So yes, I want to change my body. And I know that I'm more than a body. And then I help them set real life goals. So like, what is your main why for movement? What is it that you think losing weight will provide for you? So whether they say, Well, I want to reduce joint pain, or I want to have more stamina to keep up with my kids, or I want to be able to get up and down the stairs without getting winded. And they think that losing weight will automatically provide those goals for them. Like, okay, let's just take weight off the table, because we can't actually control that as much as we like to think we can. So let's just let that land where it lands. And let's focus on the underneath goal. So you want to reduce joint pain. Okay, great. Let's come up with a plan. How do we strengthen your legs so that your knees don't hurt? How can we add some mobility into there? Are you getting enough water? Are you hydrated, you know, things like that, like let's look at the real goal and come up with a training plan that supports that. And then as we're implementing the plan, as we're working together in our personal training sessions, you know, stuff comes up and eventually that's when we start to have these conversations about the fat bias and the the weight stigma and the fat phobia and the things that we believe and we've been taught to believe in little by little, you know, we chip away at those old thoughts and start to create new ones.
Katelyn:
Love that. So it sounds like a really sustainable patient process that is creating enough space to be able to take action and also challenge some of these limiting beliefs as as they're coming up and also to just name what people Actually one like, I think that's so important as well to like you're saying, if, if body shaping, or weight loss is an actual goal for somebody, that makes a lot of sense because of the years of messaging, and it doesn't mean that you have to rush to a place where that's just not on the table anymore, to just create enough space for people to decide what that means for themselves in their own way. And I think that really goes back to what you're mentioning about the supportive community aspect of the effectiveness of motivation. Kim, where does somebody start if they're just looking for how to discover intuitive movement on their own or joyful movement, and they have been in the environment of well, my friend did this and it worked, or my mom did this, and it worked, or I've just done this my whole life or this, you know, sounds like what I should do? How do people start discovering movement that actually is sustainable for them?
Kim:
There's a lot of steps. But I guess the first would be? Well, I guess what I did first, when I was first learning to embrace intuitive movement for myself, is I just drew a line in the sand and said, if I'm, if I'm engaging with movement to burn calories, or whatever, I'm just not going to do it. Like, right, like, I just kind of gave myself permission to move how I wanted to for a period of time. So you know, intuitive eating, we talked about unconditional permission to eat. It's kind of the same with intuitive movement, like just give yourself unconditional permission to rest, and do what feels good. So for me, like I was always I'm still a runner, I love running. But running was always about burning off what I ate, right. So like, there was a period of time where I like I just didn't run because I couldn't make myself go out the door. Without thinking, Okay, I'm gonna like I should run for this long because I ate this much food, right? So I just gave myself a break from that. So give yourself permission to just do what feels good. And one thing I teach my clients when they're first getting started with intuitive movement, is to embrace embodiment, like, learn how to actually be in your body. And you can do that simply by using your breath, just like taking a few quiet moments, coming into your body, taking a few deep breaths and seeing how your body feels. And I asked my clients to ask themselves three questions before any movement practice. And that's just how do I feel today? How do I want to feel today? And how could I move my body to get closer to that feeling? And then that opens you up to so many choices, as opposed to just Well, I have weight scheduled on the plan for today, I got to lift weights like, Well, no, like, if you're kind of feeling tired, or, you know, you didn't get a great sleep or your body is a little sore today, maybe you need some gentle stretching, or you know, just some intuitive dance. Or if you're feeling angry and stressed out, maybe lifting some heavy weights would be a great thing for you. But you have the power to choose in each moment. What's the best way to move your body for how you're feeling?
Katelyn:
Mm hmm. Yeah, I love that. I think that's so powerful. And I love those questions as well, too. And I think that really goes back to choices. You know, that being one of the fundamental principles of motivation, and just giving yourself options and plenty of choices, including rest in those choices. And I think, ooh, for me, personally, I mean, that was so challenging when I was healing my relationship with movement and my body and food because it just, it was an identity badge for me, you know? Yeah, it felt like I had so many beliefs and so many, just very limiting beliefs about how I should move my body and how that was equated to what I was eating and avoiding rest and whatnot, that just creating more options. It felt like I was doing something wrong. So I think it's really normal. What would you say if somebody is in that place where they are healing? And they know they do need to take a break from a movement pattern that's become disordered? What's the process like that you would recommend for just pausing on that to reevaluate and then perhaps coming back to it Is it possible? Is it something that you see often? Or do you discourage it? What are your thoughts?
Kim:
Well, I mean, I think it's a very individualized process. There's no right or wrong, but I think it is possible to reengage with movement that was once disordered, I actually have a really fun, personal example of this, which is burpees. I always hated. I've always hated burpees. Like they were, they were torture, even even in my hardcore training days, I still hate I hated burpees always. And they were always just seen as like, the worst way to punish my body. But they burned a lot of calories, I thought, or, you know, this is what we're taught. So I would do them because they must be effective, they must be good for you. So when I, like, you know, adopted the non diet approach, I was like, I will never do another burpee, like, this is my past, I never have to do burpees again, and I don't like it if I live the rest of my life and never do burpees. Again, there's nothing wrong with that. But recently, I was, I was doing a workout myself with my Bosu ball, which is one of those like half balls that you can do balance training on. And I was, you know, doing some balance work. And I don't even know what came over me, that was not something that I put conscious thought into. But I found myself like taking the bosu ball and putting it on the floor and stepping back into a plank and doing a little push up and then stepping back in and putting the ball over my head. I was like, Oh, my God, I just did a burpee. It was very slow and controlled. And like I was focused on all the alignment and the mobility part of it and the core strength and like, you know, the alignment of my shoulders. And like, if I just intuitively did it instinctively did it as sort of a like, mobility move. And I was like, I just did a burpee and, and I've been doing them again, and again and again. And I'm like, there's, there's like, actual function to this. And I like how it feels in my body. But I'm not doing them like fast and like, you know, dropping to the floor and jumping up in the air like that, to me doesn't feel fun. But, you know, it's just an example of how something that was so awful and had so much meaning attached to it suddenly has a totally different meaning and feels really great to do.
Katelyn:
I love that story. I have some similar stories that you know, you mentioned running before, and that I think so many people can resonate with that. It's just, you know, it's such a fundamental way to move our bodies and diet culture. And that we think is like the gold standard. It's like the standard. Yeah, definitely. And I, when I was healing, I was like, I will never run again, because it was just, it had just felt so disordered for so long. And now, I do go for a run sometimes, like sometimes I'll be on a walk. And I'll just feel my body wanting to run, I won't even plan for it. And I'll just start running for a little bit. And I'm just always like, oh my god, this is so fun. This is yeah, don't much different than what it used to be. And I never thought that I would get to that place ever. And I don't really do it that often. Because it just doesn't really feel that great anymore. But it's fun to just kind of like be in a relationship with my body, at least right now where I just listen to it in that way and have a little bit more fun with it and whatnot. So I think it's so great to see examples of all of these people who are getting to places like that with movement in their bodies. What are some other reasons? We should be considering Exercise and Movement other than the traditional weight loss, body shaping like we're like we're sold, what are what are actual evidence based ways to get motivated for motivated for movement practices that actually do support health beyond just our physical bodies and what they look like?
Kim:
Well, I think for me, number one right now is the mental health benefits. And I say that with a caveat because there is a lot of documented evidence to support exercise being good for your mental health. But there's also the other side of that where it's not right and depending on what our experience has been with exercise and what we have and what we've experienced in fitness settings, you know, as far as weight bias and weight stigma and fatphobia go it's not always a positive mental health experience. So I just want to like put that caveat out there. But you know if we can get to a place of joyful movement and in a supportive community as a part of environment, I think that the benefits to our mood and emotional state is like, top top of the line, especially right now with everything that we're going through globally with the pandemic and stuff. So mental health is huge. Oh, gosh, there's so many benefits to movement and improves memory and cognition improves your cardiovascular functioning, mobility and strength. So that as like, none of us are getting any old any younger, right. But as we age, you know, to be able to maintain our mobility for as long as possible. Like, that's something that's, I'm more mindful of now, as I'm in my 40s. And like, I just want to, I just want to be able to keep doing the things that I like doing for as long as possible.
Katelyn:
Yeah, those are great. I mean, I know, there's lots more I know, the list is long. And also for everybody listening like that's, that's also what Kim is saying is spot on. And that's an easy Google Search if you just like Google, you know, health promoting benefits of exercise beyond body, somebody wrote a book, I'm sure you probably have Kim, you probably have so much information on your social media and website and just all of these things.
Kim:
And so for sure, um, you know, there's a lot of evidence and research around this, that I just don't think diet culture promotes that often or tangles it with the way we should be, because it's all tangled in, then yeah, like, if you lose weight, then you get to experience all these other benefits. Well, that's bullshit. Sorry, like, No, you can have all the other benefits and the scale does not have to change or it could change in the other way. Who cares? Like they're two different things.
Katelyn:
Yeah. How do you know when your relationship with movement has become disordered, you know, whether or not somebody is coming to this space from a previously disordered relationship with exercise, or they're just starting to move their body more and experiencing that high for the first time and noticing that it's becoming more obsessive or compulsive and, or compensatory? In some way? What would you say to look out for?
Kim:
Well, there's one big question that you can ask yourself, and this applies to things beyond movement. But am I engaging in this behavior because I love myself, or am I engaging in this behavior, because I want to fix myself. And you know, that that will, that will show you pretty quickly if it's starting to become disordered. But you know, if we are feeling like, you have to do your workout, or you've done something wrong, or that it must be an hour, or it wasn't good enough, or you know that you have to follow the plan to a tee or, you know, you decline social invitations, because you've got to get your workout in, or you only rest on scheduled rest days, or you wait for an injury before you rest. Like these are all red flags that, you know, it's you just want to be cautious.
Katelyn:
So good. I will be highlighting that list in the show notes. Because these are really, really practical things to look out for.
Kim:
And oh, tracking. Can I add that one on like if you are married to your Fitbit, and you can't go to bed until you get 10,000 steps, or, you know, you're watching the leaderboard. And if you follow the first place, you got to squeeze in an extra workout. Those are some other red flags.
Katelyn:
Yeah, so interesting. And those are all. They're also layered as well, too, because they're so individual. And everyone has a different relationship with that. And that also is just a part of the process for everybody, everybody to keep in mind as well, too. Usually, there's something else going on when we are prioritizing control over these types of things. Like if, like you said, Kim, if you are married to your Fitbit, why, like what else? What else is there? You know, and what you said earlier, Kim, I think is so relevant for that just noticing what you aren't able to control in your life and how our default is controlling our bodies because we do have some control over them to a certain degree. And that's not always good. But it's easy, it's an easy, like first step for so many of us and there's a lot of problems with that. So something to get curious about as we're all like looking at this a little bit more closely. What is my relationship with control in general and what does it mean about me?
Kim:
What is it mean about me, so good? Yeah, if I don't hit my targets or if I don't achieve this, what does that mean about And then that will show you where you might be wrapping your worth. In either your accomplishments or, or your appearance.
Katelyn:
Let's talk about body image before we wrap this up when you are supporting a client who is struggling with a bad body image day, or when you have one, yourself, because you're human. Yep, they happen. What are your favorite tools and tips for bad body image days?
Kim:
Well, for me, what works best is to remember what it would take to change my body. Right? Like I like you say, I do have those days where I think, oh, gosh, I should lose weight. And then I think back to what that would entail. And I do a mental inventory of like, oh, yeah, do you remember when you had to count every morsel that went into your mouth and like, you know, work out two hours a day, and never spend any time with your kids and blah, blah, blah, like, and then I that very quickly, brings me back to reality. And then I get into my thought work, right. And I repeat the beliefs that I'm training my brain to believe now, which is I am more than a body, I am infinitely valuable and worthy just as I am. And then that helps, right, then I start to feel more neutral. I put on some comfortable clothes and find something else to use my mental energy for then thinking about how bad my body is. Yeah, it's not which it's not.
Katelyn:
I love that. So it's so helpful. And one thing that really stood out to me and hearing you say that kind of tying it back to what we know about the four main parts of motivation is getting curious about what is informing that belief at that time, or the thought at the time, what's the circumstance? What's the environmental circumstance that's triggering that thought, and, you know, if the environment is that you're in is, is kind of triggering this idea that you need to change your body in some way, whether it's something that you saw online, or something that you're watching or what a friend said, or a family member, but just to also acknowledge that because it is all around us. I go through this too, like I am, I am right there with you. And for me, that's super helpful. Also, just acknowledging, why do I feel this way right now? Like what actually set me off? What was the thing? That yeah, that really started to perpetuate these negative thoughts about myself and starting to look at that a little bit more closely and shifting it if possible.
Kim:
Yeah, you're right. Because the insecurity that we feel about our body is really never about our body. It's an insecurity in some other area. Right? So being honest about what triggered that? Yeah, that's really helpful right, then because then you can, then you can do the thought work on what really matters?
Katelyn:
Yes, definitely. What I love so much about this conversation, and just how clear the thought work model is, is that we're talking about our relationship with our bodies and our relationship with movement in this conversation, but this can be applied to anything in life. This is true, this is so intrinsically tied to our personal values and our self worth. And so if you are feeling discomfort in your romantic life, your career in your financial life, as a parent, as a friend, as a, as a, you know, daughter sign, whatever, like this is so easy to just get curious about in where you are not feeling enough, because that's really what it boils down to. That's what I'm hearing you 100 really like getting into with all of this. So I am, I'm so glad that you came on the show and just blew our minds with all this information and shared your story. You're, you're just so amazing Kim, and I'm so so grateful that you're doing this work. And I want everybody to connect with you. So where can they find you and get into your world? We'll plug it in the show notes.
Kim:
Thank you so much. And can I just say the feeling is mutual. So I'm on social media. I'm on Instagram and Facebook at radiantvitalitywellness, who's my handle and I also have a podcast called The Joyful Movement Show. So I release new episodes every Monday and we talk about all of this stuff, relationship to movement, body image intuitive eating, all of this ditching diet culture stuff. And then I guess the other place would be my website, which is www.radiantvitality.ca.
Katelyn:
Awesome. Ah, you're amazing. I just adore you. And thank you so much for all of your brilliance and the information that you shared with us today and your truth.
Kim:
Well thanks so much for having me on it's been a pleasure and I really I am so grateful for the work that you do Katelyn and for the opportunity to be here and and to share with your community.