Episode 97: Unpacking Binge Eating Recovery With Ali Bonar
Episode 97: Unpacking Binge Eating Recovery With Ali Bonar
In this episode we sit down with.... Ali Bonar
Ali Bonar is CEO and founder of Oat Haus: a food brand on a mission to bring joy back into eating. Ali created their flagship product, Granola Butter, out of her eating disorder recovery. She struggled with orthorexia, binge eating and exercise addiction for over a decade, and is now on a mission to help others who are struggling feel less alone. She lives in Philadelphia, PA with her partner Eric and their dog, Squishy.
In this conversation we talk about:
Ali’s personal body image story- physical, mental, and emotional preoccupation around food
Her journey with healing restriction & binging
Great real life actionable tips for dismantling people pleasing tendencies in your life
Ali’s personal body image and body dysmorphia struggles
How her personal story helped her begin her brand, Oat Haus
Connect with our guest...
Resources we mention in this episode…
Brain Over Binge: book and podcast
Ready to heal your relationship with food + body?
Book your FREE Body Trust Breakthrough Consult
Grab your FREE Intuitive Eating Workshop
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TRANSCRIPTION
Episode 97: Unpacking Binge Eating Recovery With Ali Bonar
Katelyn:
All right, Ali Bonar. Welcome to the show.
Ali:
Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.
Katelyn:
I'm so excited you're here and I cannot wait to hear your story. I know so many bits and pieces of it just from what you've shared on social media but I'm really grateful that you're here in this space sharing with our community and just going even deeper into possibly some things you haven't shared on socials. So let's jump in.
Ali:
Yes, yeah, I know. It's interesting. I feel like anytime I come on a podcast, I never know which aspect or which little direction of my story I'm going to share. Of course, it's, you know, a similar thread throughout all of them. But it is funny that, you know, depending on the interview, or that conversation, sometimes different things will pop up.
Katelyn:
Yeah, I feel that too. I. And I think that's one of the best parts about having conversations like this, it just gives you space to let any of those pieces illuminate where they need to for the community that you're speaking with. So thanks for being with ours. And let's jump into the first question. So we ask this to everybody who comes on the show, your first body awareness moment. So that moment where you realize I'm in a body, apparently, this means something in the world that I'm living in? What did that moment look like for you? And also, how did that shape your relationship with your body food? yourself? Just your, your story? Your truth?
Ali:
Yeah, yeah. This one's interesting. I actually hadn't thought about this memory in quite some time. And it just came flooding back as you were asking the question, but I had a neighbor who she was maybe a year or two older than me, and her myself and my little brother, who was like four years younger, we would all play together in you know, front yard, wherever just, this was pre social media. I don't know if anyone listening remembers when kids would actually play outside. And, um, you know, built a lot of character. And I remember coming home, and my dad being super upset, because the neighbor's mom had called him and said that my little brother called her fat. And I just remember being so confused, because my dad was basically scolding my little brother and being like, you can't say that, you know, and it was just this kind of confusing swirl of emotions moment for me, because I never thought of my neighbor. You know, I knew she was taller than me and bigger than me. But she was also older than me. And I never really thought of her as any different, you know, yes, we were in different bodies. But I didn't think that was a better or worse thing. Until that moment where, you know, my dad was really scolding my brother and saying, You can't call people fat. And so then I associated that with that, right. And it was something that you shouldn't talk about, and it was something to be ashamed of, and kind of swept under the rug. And there was no conversation around that there's no conversation around, you know, bodies look differently, and certain people are in different size bodies. And it was just like, that is bad. End of story. And that I think was the first time and it's a really sort of interesting moment. Because it was an indirect moment, right? It wasn't, no one was commenting on my body. And yet here I was having this really stark realization that bodies meant certain things, and that they were good or bad. And so that I think, I think it was probably the age maybe I don't know, nine or 10. And yeah, it was just it was one of those moments that I think is kind of ingrain into my memory. And it's a little bit different. Because again, it was more indirect than just a direct comment on my own body.
Katelyn:
That's so interesting. And yes, to your point, but indirect comment and the value that you are perceiving at such an impressionable age to where you're really trying to kind of come into the world and your beliefs are forming, and you're in this heightened state of learning and developing and all of these things. And yeah, I can understand what you mean by it just being pushed under the rug too, without having a conversation that expanded on that. So what did you do with that information? How did you internalize it? And did you start noticing patterns of how that impacted your relationship with food or your body moving forward at that point, or did that come later?
Ali:
Yeah, definitely. I mean, it wasn't immediate, I would say, really, my issues with food. My, you know, my real issues began, probably around high school time. So I would say from that point on, you know, it didn't make a huge difference in my life, but it definitely was the moment where, you know, I started to realize that my body existed and like I said it had certain value. And another moment that happened shortly after that sort of segwayed into that was, probably middle school. And I had a boy that one of my good friends was dating, it was like a middle school romance, you know. And he started it was..you never forget, like these moments when people make fun of you. And I was, I mean, I have so much just empathy. And I have such a big place in my heart for kids that are just mercilessly bullied, because it can be so traumatizing. And I was very lucky that, you know, there was only a few moments in my life, that other kids made fun of me. But I think we all sort of have these moments. And we really remember that no matter how young we are. And this boy came up to me and was like, making fun of the fact that I had no boobs. And he was like, their little mosquito bites, like, it's like, pointing at my mosquito bites, and I'm like, Okay, I'm in sixth grade, right? So like, why is even looking like it's all very young. But boys will be boys. And that was another moment where I was, like, I saw no issue with my body until someone else pointed it out. And that was a more direct, kind of, you know, I wouldn't say attack, but direct comment on my body. Um, and then, you know, just from there, I think I was so active, I was playing so many different sports, I was on the track team, I was playing volleyball. And so I always was very, you know, quote, unquote, athletic. And I was really praised for that, you know, both of my parents were triathletes, my dad did those crazy Ironman triathlons. And there was always this emphasis on movement. And, you know, my parents loved to work out, but I think, and they did the best with what they had, but I think half of it was, you know, there was sort of this 90s mentality of like, you know, burning off what you just ate, right? So, it was sort of, like, I remember my dad, you know, eating ice cream and I remember him making comments like, oh, I deserve this, because I did like a long bike ride today. And, you know, he wasn't saying that to be harmful, but it was just sort of the language that he grew up in. And then the second thing was, you know, I don't think that generation and especially either one of my parents really explored mental health or therapy. And so exercise really was their therapy, my mommy says, all the time. So it was a way that they definitely dealt with their anxiety and emotions and stuff like that. And so, you know, Saturday mornings, it was like, we woke up and my family was going for a bike ride, going on a hike, like it was a very active household. So again, it wasn't this, you know, direct comment on my body, but it was just the environment that I grew up in, that working out, athletics, you know, being active, was really highly touted and really praised.So going into high school, I started to see my body change a little bit, you know, I wasn't playing two to three sports at a time, I wasn't, you know, running five miles, and then going to a two hour volleyball practice. So naturally, plus hormones and puberty, my body started to develop, and I started to start to change. And I think this is where a lot of women especially have, you know, these tug of war moments with their bodies, because it is this time when, you know, you've seen yourself in the mirror as one way for so long. And then it starts to shift, and it's just like a natural human, you know, aversion to change that you're like, Whoa, what is this? It's against my will, and how do I stop this from happening? And there was no real conversation again, around, hey, like, your body's gonna start to change. This is what's going to happen. And it's a really beautiful, amazing process. And this is how you're going to embrace it. It was sort of just not talked about. And then all of a sudden, my mom was like, All right, we got to go bra shopping, you know, and it was sort of just like, from nothing to Victoria's Secret. It's, like, very jarring for me again. So, around that time, my family had gone on a cruise. And we were not a cruise ship family. This was like our, you know, our first cruise. And I think because my parents had, you know, gotten a certain cabin, or I don't even know how it works. But they had gotten this free consultation with a trainer, nutritionist kind of thing. And my mom was like, Sure, it's free, whatever, I'll go. And I will say both of my parents have a very balanced and non emotional relationship with food, for the most part. And so, you know, I'm very grateful that I wasn't surrounded by a mom that was always dieting. But you know, she did definitely say things about my stomach look so fat in this or I've gained weight and kind of that tone. And so I really, you know, me being a little sponge really soaked up that information. And so I remember her being sort of in that phase, where you know, she wanted to start working with a trainer and working out etc. So I went with her to this trainer appointment and this was not a registered dietician, this was just a trainer on a cruise ship that was giving out nutrition information. And he started talking about the Zone diet. I don't know if you remember the Zone Diet.
Katelyn:
Yeah. Jennifer Aniston's diet, yeah. Girlfriend, I found all the diets.
Ali:
And so I go home. And like, this is I think the difference sometimes between certain personality types. And I just, you know, again, like, I don't fault my mom for taking me to that meeting with her. That wasn't her intention at all. But when we got back home, I mean, my mom had already forgotten about it, she was drinking her pina coladas by the pool. And I'm sitting by the pool with this little booklet about the Zone diet. And I'm like, I'm just soaking this up. And it's telling me to count my almonds, and I'm like, Whoa, like, this just blew my fucking mind. Like, I was like, I've never thought to like count, or, you know, ration my food, like, I never thought of food as kind of monitoring, you know, the quantity and that just like, my whole world was turned upside down, and a very toxic demon was unleashed. And when I got home, I just like latched on to this zone diet. And from there, I started to explore it, just like spiral I was, then I was all of a sudden vegan. And then I went even further, and I was raw vegan. And this is in high school. And, you know, I'm asking my mom to drive me to Barnes and Noble to get all these raw vegan cookbooks. And she was just like, I mean, at least you're not doing drugs, like, she was like, Sure. And she had no idea, you know, and like, at the time, I wasn't, you know, it wasn't counting calories. It was like, obviously, a different form of controlling my food. And I had no idea what I was doing. I just sort of felt a sense of control. And I got a little piece of it, and I was addicted. And so that continued it on. And then I started applying to colleges, and I had this desire to apply to be a nutrition major in my undergrad, got into college up in the Bay Area, ended up studying nutrition. And that really just spiraled me even further, because I had this sort of deep desire to learn as much as I possibly could about nutrition because I was like, the more that I learn, I'm going to unlock the secret that all of these naturally thin people know that I don't know, like, I thought there was this secret out there that everyone else knew about except for me. And so I just kept learning and learning and the more that I learned about nutrition, the more obsessed with ingredients I became and I sort of started getting more Orthorexic where I was really obsessed with the quote unquote cleanliness of the food that I was eating. And you know, from there, it became this binge restrict cycle where, you know, I remember freshman year, I came back really thin. And I was restricting a lot that first fall semester. Granted, I was also so depressed because I was away from home. You know, my grandma, who was like, my best friend had died the day that I left for college, and it was just this really kind of traumatic. Yeah, a few weeks during that point. And I came home and it was like, I was the saddest I had ever been, I was the most depressed I had ever been. And the only thing that everyone in my life was commenting on was my weight and how good I looked. And oh my gosh, you lost the freshman 15. Right, like all of these, these comments that I think people mean, so well. And, you know, they're trying to just make conversation or, you know, whatever, give you a compliment that they can be so harmful, because that just really perpetuated, you know, the cycle that I was in. And so, as you know, you can only restrict for so long until your body wins and biology wins. And so spring semester was really just this time where I started binging a lot, and I was so freaked out because I had never binged before. You know, I didn't know what that meant. And all of a sudden, I was just eating uncontrollably. And I didn't know why.
Katelyn:
I love that just happened. Okay, everyone, you what time it is. Let's take a collective sip of water and we’ll wash your hands after the interview.
Ali:
My boyfriend like has our house very connected o there's Google homes everywhere. It shouldn't happen again until I think he talks again at 5pm. But yeah, so yeah, going back to what I was saying. I mean, it was just Yeah, I just started binging. I had no idea where it was coming from. And that really freaked me out which as you know, you know, can cause you to restrict harder and more. And I started you know, trying different methods where I would over exercise. So you know, I tried to make myself throw up but that was never I was never successful. So with that, and you know, so then I was like, how else can I purge, right? I'll either eat super clean, you know, after this binge, or I'll run my heart out and just over exercise for hours. So there was this endless cycle that happened all through college. And the thing I really want to touch on and then I love to talk about and really create conversation around is this idea that you don't have eating disorders don't have a look. Because when I was in college number one, I was a nutrition student. So it was very easy for me to hide my behaviors. Because all my friends were like, oh, Ali just eats salads all day, she runs all the time, because she's a nutrition student, she loves this. And so it was easy for me to hide under this guise of wellness, which is even, obviously, you know, now much more of a thing. But secondly, I didn't look like I had an eating disorder because I was restricting. But also because I was binging I sort of sat around the same weight that I am today, which, you know, in society's standards, I am not frail, I'm not underweight. And so I think no one really looked at me and thought anything, and they never, you know, thought that I was going through anything. And so because of that, again, it was really easy for me to hide. And at the same time, it was also, you know, sort of my justification for not reaching out for help, because I was like, Well, clearly, no one's noticing, clearly, I'm not sick enough, you know, clearly, I'm not doing it hard enough. And so I didn't feel like I deserved help, because I wasn't this skin and bones skeleton. And so I love talking about that. We can talk about that more, whenever you want to. But and then I guess Lastly, you know, towards the end of my journey, I had graduated college, I was living in San Francisco, working in tech, and I was just so tired, I was just mentally so over it. And I think everyone who has gone through some sort of disordered eating kind of reaches this breaking point. And, you know, it doesn't have to be this grandiose moment where you're sobbing on the bathroom floor. But it can be this accumulation of little moments. And I think your patience just really starts to wear thin. And, you know, you find yourself trapped in this mental prison that you've created for yourself. But at the same time, you're just so tired. And you're like, I'm done with this. And that's really where I got to. And so I ended up reaching out for help. And the first person I told was this woman who was a nutritional therapist, and she just changed my whole life and really just blew my head wide open with everything related to food. Because for so long, I was like, I went to a restaurant to scan the menu for the healthiest thing on the menu. And that's what I would choose, right? And I had no concept of even tapping in and being like, what do I want? Like, what sounds good to me right now, do I want tacos, because I want even that split second, where you're even considering a craving or what you want, I wouldn't even let myself have that craving because I was so scared of cravings that I would just suppress, push down, push down. So it was really like I was this head walking around just so disconnected from my body. And so she really taught me to reconnect to my body, you know, reconnect to my hunger signals, my fullness signals, my cravings, and it was just this beginning of this beautiful journey that was, you know, really hard, really difficult, but the best thing that I've ever done, ultimately. And so that led to the founding of my company, which I'm happy to talk about. And yeah, it's kind of led me to the place I am today. And so, you know, now I have the best relationship with food I've ever had. I am such an intuitive eater, I never thought I would get here like I don't say that to brag, but just to give people listening hope because I was so in the pit I was so in this dark hole. And I will look at my friends and family that just ate intuitively and they didn't even think about food. And you know, I've looked at my boyfriend who would go hours without eating and sometimes even forget to eat. And I was like how, like, I am literally planning my next five meals as I'm eating my current meal. And I'm that person now. Like, I will look today, I know, it's not that I forget to eat on purpose, because I'm restricting myself. It's like, I'm so engrossed in my work, and just my life that all of a sudden I feel my stomach rumble. I'm like, oh my god, shoot, I need to go eat lunch. And then I do and I enjoy it. And, you know, I nourish myself and I feel satisfied and they move on. And it's just this really pure sort of balanced relationship that I never thought I’d have. And I think I'm at this point now where you know, the journeys, never ending, right? So I feel really good with my relationship with food. But now it's sort of this journey of, of my body. And it's, you know, I still have this crazy body dysmorphia. And I still really struggle with my body image. And, you know, obviously, your body changes like now I'm almost 30 and my body looks different than when I was 18. And I don't think people tell you that like I think there's just this societal thing that people always talk about. Oh, you're supposed to look exactly way before your whole life, and it's not true. And so I think now I'm at this place. And we talked about this before we started recording, but I'm sort of getting more into spirituality. And, you know, I'm about to start working with this somatic therapist, and she helps you just tap into your body. And it's not talk therapy, but it's like, what are the signals that your body's telling you? So I'm really excited to reconnect with my body. And that's sort of the next phase of my journey.
Katelyn:
Ali, I have so many questions, my mind is like spinning right now, our story, I just see so many similarities in my own story to yours, too. And I just appreciate your truth and your transparency and vulnerability and sharing all of this. And what's so interesting, going off of what you just said, is, it's that preoccupation that was so freeing for me personally, that it sounds like it's, it's the same for you, too, but the physical mental and emotional preoccupation around food I, we can talk about body image, and in a moment, because it, it's the same and a little bit different as well, too. But yeah, I went through, and for most of my life, I was like, I can't imagine not thinking about food all day, every day, either feeling guilty about what I ate, anticipating what I'm going to eat, researching something that I wish I could give myself permission to eat, you know, like, just this infatuation with food. And that has been so freeing in coming to this place of just more neutrality around food and permission to eat all of the food. You know, whenever you want, however you want. Like it really takes away the pedestal that food is placed on and then also what you mentioned about going back to or going and enrolling in nutrition and kind of getting away with a lot of these behaviors under the name of your degree. And I think that's so problematic in so many industries like nutrition, dietetics, health exercise, or exercise, science, health coaching, like all of these things, too. And so for you, was there anybody that you confided in while you were going through this at any point, like even in high school, did you talk to your family about some of the things that you were struggling with? Or anybody in college in your degree or outside of it? Or were you kind of just blazing this trail on your own?
Ali:
Yeah, that's a great question. I don't know that I've ever been asked that actually, like, during the process before I really embarked on recovery. Um, you know, I really didn't like I was such a good girl, people pleaser growing up. And that just weighed on me so heavy. And I mean, looking back, my family must have known like, I, you know, and I've sort of talked about it with them since and there were obviously, I'm very open with them now about my recovery. But we haven't really had that conversation about and, you know, maybe I'm going home for the holidays in a few days. Like, that would be an interesting one to have. You know, did you guys know, did you have any inclination when I was going through this? Because, you know, there were moments where I just remember, you know, just trying to burn off what I had eaten and like, after dinner, going for late night walks, you know, around my neighborhood, and my mom's like, what are you doing? Like, you know, I was just like, 9pm, like a, you know, 16 year old girl doesn't just, like, get her steps in, I don't know, it's just like, not really super common. And so I feel like there was things they must have known and also just, me really being so, so severe, and, you know, with my food being raw, vegan, but during, you know, during the whole process, I really kept to myself, because I was so ashamed. And I think that is something that people don't also talk a ton about, like, during any sort of, you know, disordered eating pattern or journey. I think it's really shameful. And, and I think a lot of times people feel so guilty, or they feel embarrassed, and I definitely did. And so, you know, that's something that I really try to give people the space for is just to share their stories. And the way that I do that is by being super open about the stuff that I've gone through, you know, eating out of the trash. I've done that so many times, you know, if I didn't want to eat something, I would throw it away. I would like pour salt on it are all these behaviors that you hear about? And you know that I would take it out of the trash and I would wash it off and then I would binge on it. And it's just like, people don't talk about this, but the more you do you know, it just normalized Is it and, and the reason and it's not anything that's wrong with you or there's nothing, you know, broken because for so long you feel like oh my gosh, like there is something inherently broken inside of me. I'm like, why am I doing this? Like, why can't I just be normal around food, and I was blaming my behaviors on I was blaming the binge behaviors, I was always like, there's something wrong with me binging, there's something wrong with me over eating. You know, I feel so gluttonous. And I was never, ever once thinking about maybe it's the restriction, maybe it's the fact that you don't let yourself have one tiny little crumb of bread ever, you know, like I had this terrifying fear of carbs like that was that ruled my life for a really long time. And I didn't get my period for I mean, until I was like, probably, probably three years ago, I didn't get my period, which is so unhealthy, you know, and, and I didn't see anything wrong with not getting my period. I was like, Well, you know, it's fine. Maybe it's just genetics, right? I was so in denial. And the second, the second, I allow myself and reintroduce carbs into my life, I get a normal cycle. And I've had a normal cycle for the past, you know, whatever, few years. So yeah, I just think to answer your question. And coming back, from all my tangents, I really think that I was really good at hiding it. And I think a lot of people who struggle are and it's really, it's really toxic. And it's the worst thing you can do. Because you're living this double life, you're never present. You're mentally elsewhere, you know, and it was almost like half of the healing was done in that first phone call with that first therapist that I worked with, when I told her and I just the words escaped my mouth. And I just, I couldn't even barely get them out. Like I was whispering I was just like, I think I have a problem with food. And like that simple sentence was so hard for me to admit. And once I did, it was like a waterfall. And she was like, tell me more about that. And it was like, but like, all of this pent up, you know, shame and guilt just came tumbling out. And I remember hanging up the phone and just laying in my bed and feeling like 1000 pounds lighter, you know? So yeah, to answer your question, like, No, I didn't really tell that many people. But once I did, I couldn't stop. And that's where my Instagram account came from. And I started telling everyone online, and it was scary, like what had been the scariest thing that I could have ever done, which was just to tell someone I was struggling, literally became my life mission. And it literally became the genesis of my business. And it literally became the thread of which I, you know, led this new life. So yeah, I will say that, you know, it's always possible to change your fears.
Katelyn:
It's so powerful when you give yourself permission to just speak your truth, even if it's to one person, you know, it really does dismantle that shame so powerfully. And just like you were saying, eating disorders, disordered eating, this thrives in secrecy. And usually it's driven by some form of perfectionism, people pleasing shame, a combination of all of those even and that just kind of fuels the fire for the secrecy because it's so so toxic. I got like, there's so many things that I can speak to as well.
One thing that's so interesting, in what you just shared is just acknowledging the people pleasing tendencies that you have, which makes so much sense in your story, because your first body awareness moment is kind of this foreshadowing of people pleasing. It's this idea that well, dad is saying that this is bad, I didn't know it was a bad thing. But I guess this is kind of where the bar is set iin terms of how we are viewing bodies. So perhaps that subconscious undertone of well, I'll just kind of check this check in with this moving forward, and then the reinforcement that seems to have been coming up in your story as well, too, that kind of is dating back to that first awareness moment too.
Ali:
Yeah, oh, yeah. Yeah, people pleasing, oh, my gosh, it's something that I actively work on. And it's something that, you know, I've tried to not associate myself with, it's like, I am not a people pleaser, I am someone who was raised, you know, learning that that's the way to be loved. That's the way to fit in. And so I think just separating myself so for anyone listening that also struggles with this, you know, I just thought oh, I'm a people pleaser, like inherently that is who I am. I thought it was in my DNA. My mom's a people pleaser, you know, I was like, It's genetic. But then through a lot of therapy and self help, and, you know, I'm sure you know, this, too, is just like, No, these are learned behaviors and you can always unearn any behavior. And that's just been really empowering for me. And so especially as a business owner, and you know, now I'm, I mean, I'm our CEO, like I am Head bitch in charge, and I can't You can't be a people pleaser in business, you know it, people will walk all over you. And I think that has been a nice sort of gateway drug for me to, you know, assert my own dominance, so to speak, and just and just step into my power and you know, then transfer that into my personal life, because I think sometimes business can be a great way to almost put on this mask of like, okay, this is my business self, I can be a little bit firmer, I can have, you know, have a little more masculine energy, but you know, you can speak up yourself, and you can make these decisions. And again, you know, just step into your power and your personal life, too.
Katelyn:
Well, that's a really good point, because there's plenty of people who are not business owners who listen to this podcast. And what I'm hearing from you is you found this space where it's safe for you to, to flex this muscle to practice this skill to really stretch your discomfort with this. And we all have a space in our life, it's just about looking for where we can take charge, and really start stepping into practicing these skills, like dismantling people pleasing or anything else that might be relevant for you. But I do think that's so important and so awesome that you've found that in business, because I'm sure it's transferred into so many other areas of your life, too. But just that entry point, looking out for that, and really identifying that, like for everybody who's listening. I think that's a great tip alley where you can feel really safe in practicing that skill.
Ali:
Yeah. And again, yeah, I love that you mentioned that because that's a good nuance again, no, you know, not everyone has their own business or even works, you know, nine to five. But I think another place that is a good starting point is with people that you know, won't judge you, you know, maybe it's your partner, maybe it's your best friend, a loved one. And even letting them know, like, Hey, I'm working on this. Like, I remember actually, when I was growing up, my mom, when she turned 50, she kind of came up to my dad and I and announced she was like, I'm, I just turned 50 Like, I'm not stuffing anymore. And like she I think she had her moment and my dad and I were like, kind of looked at each other like, Okay, we'll believe it when we see it, you know? And she really did. And, you know, I think she had that sort of midlife crisis where she was like, I have been a people pleaser, my whole life. And my mom is a badass, like, she was in the Navy, you know, she's a dentist, like, she's just, you know, she, like fired ak 4s7. Like, she's a badass, you know, bitch, but she had this, her whole life was just like this people pleasing tendency. She even told me, she was like, I have this fear like, I would rather be well liked than well respected. And I was like, Ooh, that is that is good. And so she's like, I want to stop that. Like, that's not you know, so you can change at any age. But I think, you know, similar to what she did, like, you can go to your close friends or family and just tell them like, Hey, this is what I'm working on. Can you help me? Or can you hold me accountable? Because sometimes I think it helps having people in your life that are like, oh you did it again? You know, when you're not really notice?
Katelyn:
Yes. Oh,
totally. And oh, my God, what amazing permission for your mom to give herself and also for you to witness that as her daughter, where I'm sure a lot of the environment had kind of driven your people pleasing, perhaps. And that tends to be the case because it you know, it's so environmentally driven in so many situations. But for you to be doing the work on your own and what it seemed that for your mom and then having that safe space to actively practice together almost. That's pretty awesome.
Ali:
Yeah, yes, she's had I mean, she has just grown so much. And I think, you know, that's another testament, as I mentioned, like, you can change at any age, like I really felt like from the time really, when she turned 50. Like she had this huge shift. And, you know, she's I don't know how old she is now. But that was a while ago. And you know, she's definitely kind of, I think, coming into herself and arguably, you know, what people would say is too late or, you know, older in life, and it's like she really just, she's blossoming. So, so proud of Leslie.
Katelyn:
Do you have any tips, besides the spaces that you practice this in that have really impacted your dismantling, or reestablishing people pleasing tendencies in your life? Like, are there any, any tools that you use or things that you watch out for in your life? To just recreate a new relationship with this for yourself?
Ali:
Definitely. Yeah. Um, I mean, number one, I think practicing setting boundaries is so huge, regardless of whether or not you identify as a people pleaser. I think everyone could use some some work on setting boundaries. And I think the holidays to coming up can be a great time to practice that. I don't know when this is airing. But yeah, I think just really getting comfortable with saying no to like, I think I was such a Yes girl. Like in college I even like my best girlfriend and I we were like we called ourselves Yes, girls, because sometimes, you know, there's times in your life like maybe college, you know, say yes to all the things because you never know like, we have some great stories, because we just said yes to everything. And we were always out. We I don't know, we just got into like crazy things. And so that was fun, right? And I don't regret that. But I think there's also times in your life where being okay, and being comfortable saying no, is really important. And especially as you get older, and you have more responsibilities, and I don't even have kids yet, like, I can't even imagine when you add kids into the mix, right, and, you know, an in laws and all these things, and it's just yeah, your responsibilities sort of multiply quickly. And so you sort of have to prioritize and just say, you know, I can't do that tonight. And I think people also respect you a little bit more when you don't let them walk all over you. And you do assert your boundaries. And it just, it gives space for other people to, to assert their boundaries. Like, I'm so proud of the relationship I have with some of my high school girlfriends, because we haven’t just been friends since high school. But we've been friends since like third grade. And it's this group of girls in San Diego, and we are so honest with each other. Like, if I'm home, you know, I'll be home in a few weeks. And you know, they text me and they're like, Hey, we're doing whatever girls night tonight, and I respond like, Hey, I'm just not feeling like being social tonight. That's totally fine. Where like, in any other relationship I have in my life, I would lie. And I would make up some sort of excuse and be like, oh, sorry, I can't come because I don't know, I would just make something up. That was dumb. And it's like, they respect that. And then I respect when they are honest with me. And so I've really tried to kind of, you know, transfer that honesty into other relationships. And then also with boundaries, just not even having an excuse, right? Like, you can say no to something and you don't even have to explain yourself like you can just assert your boundary.
Katelyn:
Yes, absolutely. And boundary setting is so similar to what we just talked about in terms of where to dismantle the people pleasing. Where do you feel the most comfortable setting the boundary? What's the path of least resistance? Who do you feel the most comfortable setting the boundary with? And it doesn't have, I think sometimes people bristle at the word boundary, because we think, Oh, God, that means confrontation, that means the stakes that somebody won't like my response are really high and all of these things and yet exactly what you're saying and your examples, there's so many areas where it doesn't necessarily have to be that extreme. And you can build once you start to get the foundation really set in boundary setting as well, too. So such great real life actionable tips. Thank you for sharing all that. Um, I want to go back to what you mentioned around binging because I have some thoughts and questions around this as well, too. I personally, I was like nodding my head when you were talking about this pretty actively. I thought that I had something wrong when I was in the binder cycle as well, too. And I Googled everything under the sun, it didn't, never crossed my mind that it was due to restriction. And I find it kind of impossible that I googled that many things without finding anything on restriction. I think it was probably just, I wasn't ready to see it. And I wasn't really ready to confront what that meant in terms of letting go of restriction on many different areas and levels and all those things. So what was the process like for you in healing, the restriction and how that impacted your binges? What did that look like in your chapter?
Ali:
Yeah, I'm the same exact way. I mean, I would like the number of times I Googled how to stop binge eating, or tips to stop binge, like, I was always focused on the pitch. Yeah, all these articles would come up, and it's like, have some tea, go for a walk and take a bubble bath. And I'm like, so bloated, and like, full that I feel like I'm gonna barf. And like, No, I don't wanna take a bubble. Like, I just have like three cartons of ice cream. So I'm sure some of those, like you said, I'm sure some of them mentioned restriction, but I was just not there. And I think what people think will happen is if you, if you stop restricting, you just think the binging is going to last forever. And you're like, well, at least in my mind, I was like, Well, you know, I was justifying the restriction because I'm like, well, it's keeping me from gaining, you know, hundreds of pounds that I would have been if I was just always binging because I thought again that that's what I was going to keep doing. But the fact of the matter is, yes, you will have a little they call it like a honeymoon phase and You know, it's the early phase where when you really give yourself full food freedom, and I highly recommend working with, you know, a professional on this either a therapist, a registered dietician, someone who is really trained in this because they can kind of help guide you through this process, because it can be really scary. Like when you first ride a bike without training wheels, because you're just like, oh my gosh, you know, I, you go from having such strict guardrails to just nothing. And I think that can be really terrifying, and also kind of harmful. So again, very helpful to work with someone who knows what they're doing. But kind of zooming out the way that my process looked was, I let myself have complete food freedom. And I started small. So as I mentioned, I was really, really terrified of carbs. I don't know where that fear came from. I think it was just society when we were kind of swinging more towards like the Keto, everyone was afraid of carbs, you know, these diets?
Katelyn:
Yes, Zone Diet is pretty low carb. That’s a pretty young age to kind of have that reinforced. I have a very similar story with Atkins and my relationship with food, like, I have the carb fear. I'm really ingrained in my story, too. So I get that for sure.
Ali:
I'm sure it was, I mean, and so I think, you know, I just slowly I had, you know, half a piece of bread with lunch, like one meal a day, and I would just kind of work myself up, and then I'd have a full piece, and then I would have it at multiple meals. And I was like, wow, nothing's happening to my body. I'm not gaining 100 pounds overnight. And I'm speaking in these hyperbolic terms, because that's where my brain was like, that is where that's what I thought would happen. I literally thought half a piece of bread would make me gain like, hundreds of pounds overnight. And which is scary to think that that was my reality. But you know, it's a lot, it's just disorder. And so then slowly over time, you know, I just got more comfortable with certain food groups. And then over time, I just sort of let my other food rules kind of fall away. So no eating after 8pm. Like the time restricted eating was a big one for me, with all the intermittent fasting going on. And the thing was, after a while, I'm going to be completely honest, this is my journey, everyone's different. But after a while, when I was eating adequately, I felt like I really, you know, wasn't restricting anything. I was still binging. And I was like, What the fuck, like, I was like, This is what I was afraid of, like, this is my biggest fear is coming is realizing, and I was like, What is going on. And what I realized was, I was still restricting, but I was restricting myself emotionally. So I would be eating something and say, you know, whatever, tacos, I don't know what I mean, tacos just came to mind because I love tacos. And I was eating them. And the whole time, as I'm eating them, I was telling myself, you shouldn't be eating this, you shouldn't be eating this. And so while physically I was letting myself have it emotionally and mentally, I was restricting myself from the pleasure of it and really enjoying it. And so my soul wasn't being nourished, and so I would still binge. So that's something to look out for if you're currently in recovery. Another thing is, sometimes you can get into, you know, a very habitual binging pattern, where it's less about, because you've been binging for so long, then you've kind of ingrained these neural pathways where, you know, it's just out of habit for you to turn to food when you know, you feel a negative emotion or XYZ, you know, to cope, you just binge so a sort of more practical kind of brain based side, that really helps me it was this. It's a book in a podcast, and it's called Brain over Binge.
Katelyn:
yeah, no, I think she puts out great content.
Ali:
Yeah. And I mean, again, it's very kind of more, you know, habit based. So what she kind of talks about is just, you know, you've created this habit for yourself after years of doing it, and you just need to create a new neural pathway and break the habit. And I think that was so black and white and sort of sort of logical, and it took the emotion out of it. You know, I think sometimes when you're binging it's very wrapped in a lot of emotion. And just looking at it very objectively, really did help me kind of come like that last few yards in my recovery. But again, a lot of it was just finding little areas in my life that I was unknowingly restricting. You don't know. Yeah, sometimes you don't know. And so that was a big one. And just Yeah, it took time and uncovering those, and then using binging as like a check engine light, right? Not using it at to beat yourself up or think that you're, you know, broken, but being kind of getting scientific and curious and being like, oh my gosh, okay, I'm still binging. And for me, I would always binge this sounds so like wild, but I would always binge when I was packing for a trip. And what I realized was I was sort of an avoidant eater like when I didn't want to do something I didn't want to pack I didn't want to do if I was working from home I would start to eat and then I would start to kind of rummage through the pantry. And that would eventually lead to a binge. So also kind of knowing your triggers and not beating yourself up around them, but just getting aware. And then I would realize, when I would go to reach for food, it's because I felt feelings of anxiety because I had a lot of anxiety around traveling and I had like a, you know, minor fear of flying. And so then just sitting with the anxiety and being like, Okay, I'm eating to suppress this emotion, and numb out and not feel anything. But what I need to do right now is actually process that emotion and feel it and get comfortable with it. And so it's not being like you could never use food as a coping mechanism, or, you know, for comfort because I still, you know, I love eating for comfort, but it's also having different skills and coping mechanisms and sort of diversifying that.
Katelyn:
Yes, 100%. And, I mean, we just, you just listed, like 20 different things, and none of them included a bubble bath, or drinking a cup of tea, or like, gorging yourself in water so that you don't keep eating. This is really complex. And I really want to highlight this for everybody who's listening. Because I mean, Ali, how long did this take? You like to really get to a place where you weren't binging anymore? How many years do you think?
Ali:
Yeah, oh, yeah, it was a few years for sure. Like this wasn't an overnight thing. And what happened with me is it wasn't like, one day, I just stopped binging and then I never binge again, it was they got the binges got less frequent. Right. So it was, you know, like, now, I can't even tell you the last time I binge, that it's been years, but there was a point where it was like, okay, like, I haven't had a binge this month. And that was or, you know, or today or this week, like, and slowly, they got more spread out. So I would say I mean, it's that probably the whole process was a multi year process. But during that process, it's still you know, you get these little wins, because you're you don't binge for a month or so. And so, and you're learning so much about yourself. So it is a long process, but I wouldn't be discouraged if I was listening, because you know, the light at the end of the tunnel, so to speak, like, when you're on the other side, it's so worth it.
Katelyn:
Well, and that's kind of what I wanted to highlight. Because it really is, I think that, especially if you're working with somebody, it can really, you can have a lot of quick wins, like binging can become infrequent, pretty easily if you're really focused on a lot of the restriction components that are physical, mental, emotional. And then what tends to happen at least, it sounds like in your case, definitely, in my case, a lot of the clients that I work with, for sure, we start to really get curious about okay, when when they do pop up, whether it's once a month, once every couple of months, once every other week, what else is here, like what other layers like the emotional component, sitting with the emotions, you know, you mentioned that you're working with a somatic therapist are starting to like being able to feel your feelings and your body without being afraid of that without running from it listening to your body in a completely different way. And I'm so glad we're having this conversation. Because I think it's so important, especially in a culture that is giving 10 Quick Tips to stop binge eating, and really completing it with teas and bubble baths and all these things. It's so nuanced. It's so emotional, it's incredibly personal. It is physical, mental, and emotional. And it shows up in so many different parts of life, too. So I always think curiosity, self compassion, those are the tools to always lead with but I'm, I'm so grateful that you're really bringing your story to life to really demonstrate that because it's so powerful. And it really just goes to show, the more committed you are to partnering we are with yourself on this healing journey. This is where you get to be and then you get to go a layer deeper and a layer deeper and a layer deeper. So it really is, it's not for everybody to feel defeated, that it's not possible. It's to kind of normalize the process and the journey and the breakthroughs in healing and also the time that it's required to because I think that we're kind of living in a culture that's over promising and under, under delivering severely on that right now.
Ali:
Yes. Oh my gosh, yeah. I mean, I am totally fine with it taking, you know, two, three years. Because that also you have to think like zoom out like this is the rest of your life. You know, we have so many people promising like, oh, you know, I could see it now like the headline for like, a binge free online e course. It's like, you know, stop binge eating in 24 hours. It's like, okay, but do you want this to last? Like, do you want these results to really last? And it's really not about like, yes, you want to stop binge But it's never it's not about the food, like you have to get deeper. And this is almost shifting your fundamental, you know, who you are as a person almost. And I know that sounds scary for a lot of people. But like, going back, one thing I do want to mention that I didn't was when I was growing up, you know, my parents were very happy go lucky, very like on paper, or if you ever meet them, like they're amazing, happy, beautiful people, but they never taught me about the full spectrum of human emotion. And that, actually, it's really, you know, what a beautiful gift to have all these different juicy emotions. And it's not just important to feel happy all the time. And so I think that's also where my issues with food kind of stemmed from was because when I felt started to feel these feelings of anxiety, boredom, loneliness, you know, all these normal human emotions, I didn't know what to do with them, because I've never been taught that you're supposed to feel your feelings. And so, you know, thankfully, I didn't turn to drugs or anything like that. But, you know, food is a drug in a way. And so that was my readily available drug. And so I think, in your recovery, you know, it's going to feel like it's very food focused. But what you're really doing is learning how to process emotions and learning, like you said more about yourself and just diving deeper.
Katelyn:
Mm hmm. Oh, God, that I, I can so relate to that as well to just the emotional spectrum. And, you know, just giving yourself permission to feel the negative emotions without assigning morality or judgment to them like to just normalize all of the feelings and the permission and the journey of feeling them on a regular basis with tools to support those feelings, too, because that's kind of the second component of it.
Ali:
Yeah. Anger sucks. Like, it's, it's not a very comfortable emotion, sadness, it, it doesn't feel great to be sad all the time. But when you know, it'll pass when you can give yourself permission to just be sad to be with yourself in that moment, to know that it won't last forever. And also to really build tools that support that emotional state. That's been so transformational in my journey. And it sounds like it has for yours also.
Katelyn:
Yeah, definitely. Let's talk about where you're at right now with your body because you mentioned some body dysmorphia still lingering. And I think that's incredibly normal. What does it look like for you right now?
Ali:
Yeah. So it's interesting. I actually, if you had asked me, two months ago, I would have been like, I am like, my body and I are great. You know, obviously, there's room for improvement. But I feel good about things. But I think what was going on was I was just so busy. I was so busy with starting my business with building, growing the startup, right? That I felt like my relationship with my body was fine. But it was because I was really just my mind was elsewhere. And I wasn't spending the time to think about it. And so I actually went to Puerto Vallarta in Mexico for Thanksgiving with my boyfriend's family. And it was like, my first real vacation, we were there for like a little over a week. And I was like, off the grid, not checking email, like really just, I left my phone in the room all day, like it was beautiful. Delicious. And, but what it did was it gave me this, this headspace back that I had been, you know, for the past four years of building our business, just focused on that it just freed it up in an instant. And where did my mind go? It went to my body in a bikini by the pool. And I think I realized that there is a difference between being having a healed relationship with your body, and loving relationship with your body and just being distracted and not thinking about your body. And I had thought those are one of the same. So yeah, what my relationship looks like now. I mean, as I mentioned before we started recording. So I am on like day nine, almost two weeks into my COVID quarantine. And that has been, you know, this has been actually a really lovely time for me to just slow down like obviously, I can't really do much and so a lot of it has been and I also, you know, don't feel like doing like an intense workout, obviously, or any workout. And so it's just sort of been stretching and getting back into my body and feeling her and being so you know, loving towards her doing a lot of body acceptance, type meditations and just sitting in stillness, but it's definitely a journey. I think what happens is when you're so focused on you know, restricting and binging and you're caught in this like melodrama of your life that you've created for yourself. It's sort of a nice distraction from your real problems, you know? So it's like, once you start to heal that, you're like, oh, shoot, what am I going to think about all the time, I don't think about counting calories anymore, and what I'm going to eat for my next meal. And so what I did was I filled that space with building my business. And you know, again, it's so better. There's, you know, it's not right or wrong, but it's just, I think I need to really get honest with myself. And instead of replacing things, you know, with another preoccupation for my mind, I really need to spend the time. And so I'm going to be working, as I mentioned, with this somatic therapist, which I'm really excited in the new year, I'm also working with someone who does a lot of the human design. I don't know if you're familiar with that at all. So I'm working with her the New Year, like, we're going to do a full reading. And we're going to do a family reading, actually, over the weekend between Christmas and New Year's, which will be interesting. But yeah, just kind of working with, I'm the type of person that I love to work with someone who can really just like help guide me, because, you know, I feel like at this point in my recovery, like, I've done a lot of work just on my own. And I think that's really great to kind of be your own healer. But I'm also super self aware. And I'm like, I don't know what I don't know, like, I've come this far, you know, like trying to heal myself, but I really kind of need that guidance. And I also don't have a lot of time. So it's like, I want someone to be like, you know, Do this, do that. But at the same time, I think also, you know, not relying on some sort of guru to kind of get me through it. And just knowing that the answers are within myself, and it's just a conscious choice of, you know, choosing to love myself every day. And at least making that effort and that attempt every day.
Katelyn:
Yeah, it sounds like you're, you're at this place of deep permission to just continue on the journey and receive help and guidance. With this inner knowing that you have, you have the answers. But that doesn't mean that you aren't able to ask for support at the same time, which I mean, from an outsider's perspective sounds beautiful and balanced. And also so inviting for everybody listening to this as well to like, how freeing to know so deeply within yourself, that there's not a finish line with all of this, that you are worthy of growing and expanding, and you are never perfect in this journey. And the imperfection is where the beauty really shows up. That's so freeing for this community. So thank you for sharing where you're at right now and just how you've redefined it for yourself.
Ali:
Yeah, of course.
Katelyn:
Tell me about your business because you have this amazing product. And I know this stemmed from your recovery as well, too. So how did the two correlate?
Ali:
Yeah, I know, the irony is not lost on me that I have a food company that was founded out of my eating disorder recovery. But yeah, it's been such a beautiful evolution, I think, just showing myself that, you know, something beautiful can come out of my darkest moment. And I never thought that was possible that I thought this was going to be this kind of little corner of shame, this little part of me that I would never talk about. And again, just you know, for anyone listening, just giving the permission to you know, use that the sort of like shadow parts of yourself can be turned into your life's mission and your purpose. And that's really what happened for me. So, you know, part of my recovery process was adding foods back into my diet that I was afraid of, right. So when I was Orthorexic, like, the carbs were the devil. But also I was really terrified of nut butters, because they were so caloric like, I was just afraid of how calorically dense they were. So I really didn't eat like peanut butter almond butter for a long time. And so in my recovery, you know, went zero to 100 this honeymoon phase started reintroducing it. And unfortunately, you know, my gut was just sort of a wreck from years of binging and restricting. And I really had a hard time digesting peanut butter and almond butter. And so my little disordered brain was like using it as an excuse. I was like, Oh, you don't need it, you know, it's fine. But then deep down I was like no, like, I don't want to give up on my recovery. You know, I want a nice healthy fat to throw on to you know, my breakfast in the morning. And so I started looking at some of the nut free spreads I tried the sunflower seed butter I tried the soy nut butter and they just did not do it for me taste wise like no shame, you know, nothing against these brands out there. Like I think that a lot of them are great for you know, school, their school safe and nut free and etc. But just the taste for me didn't do it. So I was determined. I got in my kitchen. And I was like, okay, what can I create? That's nut free, but it tastes really good. And I was inspired by the Trader Joe's cookie butter. And have you tried that?
Katelyn:
Yeah, yes. So good.
Ali:
So good. And I was like, okay, I can recreate this. And I was like, What about oats? Like Oatly was kind of exploding onto the scene with our oat milk. And I was just like, This is wild. Like, I started Googling on my phone. I was in my tiny San Francisco kitchen. I'm like googling oatly spread out butter, you know, granola, butter, and nothing is coming up. And I'm like, yo, like, this is the 2000s. Like, how has no one created this. And so I started I got to work. And I started, you know, nights and weekends, like working on the recipe. And then I was working in tech at the time. And my boyfriend was in tech consulting. So you know, both of us, like nine to five corporate America. Well, startups, but you know, still corporate. And he was very, like, entrepreneurial. I never thought of myself as an entrepreneur, honestly, because I've never been driven by money. That's a whole other conversation. I think there's very, lots of different types of entrepreneurs. And actually, what drives me is, like, I love the wow factor. Like I love telling someone like, I found it's like, I created something that's never been done before. And people be like, wow, like, that's what I thrive on. And maybe that's like the people pleasing, you know, thing. But I think everyone is driven by different things. And identifying that for yourself is really important. Because, you know, it kind of, I don't know, it helps shape what you do. So anyway, I digress. But he is very entrepreneurial. And he's very competitive. Like, what drives him is he's like, has to win. He's like a competitor, my third co founder, driven by money, classic entrepreneur. So anyways, that's interesting. And so but at the time, I didn't realize that about myself, I didn't think I was an entrepreneur. So he was really the one pushing me he's like, we have to do this. Like, this is such a great idea. I was like, I don't know, like, it's kind of like a weird, wacky idea. So we didn't know anyone in our lives who, you know, was a classically trained chef. I love food. My boyfriend, like, we're big foodies. But we were like, how are we going to scale this? And also, how are we going to, you know, create this final recipe like we had, basically, the recipe at the time was blending Trader Joe's granola with like, coconut oil, and our Vitamix, like it was trash. You know, like we would ride to like pay people to eat this stuff. Like it was so bad. So chalky. And Eric goes, Oh, my God, I went to summer camp, he went to Jewish summer camp with this guy, who was like, worked at Michelin star restaurants, you know. And he goes, he's working out in Paris right now as a chef. And he was like, let's fly to Paris. And let's pitch him on this idea. Okay, we're like not, this isn't normal for us. Like we don't just fly to Paris. Just remember, Eric was a consultant. He had like millions of miles. So don't worry, I'm not like, let's not rolling in the dough. So we fly to Paris. We pitch Ari, who's our third co founder now, on this idea, he sees the vision immediately. And he's like, Yes, he was so disenchanted by his life in Paris. He was like chain smoking. He was like 50 pounds less than he is today. He looked frail and terrible, because he was so overworked. And the restaurant industry is just like a total bitch. And he was like, I'm done with this, like, I'm ready for something new. And so he comes back over with us. And we basically start this company together. And that was September 2017. We launched the company in March 2018. And we now have a 12,000 square foot nut free facility in Philadelphia, where we're living now, total plot twist, we moved across the country. We were just on this season of Shark Tank or global brand at Whole Foods. And so, again, I'm not saying this to brag, right? Like, it's the same thing with my recovery. I'm saying this because never in my wildest dreams would I have thought that I was, you know, even like, six years ago, right, I was struggling with food, I never would have thought I was the founder of a food company that was going on Shark Tank that was in Whole Foods, like I would have no idea. And so it's just such a testament to me, to the power of the human spirit and the resiliency. And just you really can do anything you set your mind to. And it sounds so cliche and so cheesy. But now that I've lived it, like it's so powerful for me to share that because anything that you have this little dream in your mind, especially now with like Tik tok and social media, like you can blow up at any point, you know, like it's really empowering. So yeah, that was like where the genesis of our brand came from. And yeah, now we're just I mean, we're building, we're sort of in this building phase. We just had our 2022 planning meeting and I'm so excited for what's to come, but at the same time, it's very challenging. So lots of self care, you know, trying to my own mental health, and all that good stuff.
Katelyn:
Okay, this is incredible. It's so inspiring. My first question is one that I was curious about before we hit record. And of course, I want to hear about shark tank, and some of the things that you just mentioned. But I couldn't help but wonder just because I know your experience with the Restrict binge cycle, and then the digestive issues that you mentioned, starting to eat nut butter and not being able to digest this. So did this correlate at all with the the binges or just kind of like the binge episodes, the reason why I'm asking this is because I'm projecting a little bit because in my recovery, I was binging on nut butter, and I wasn't able to poop for like, a week, because I was eating so much of it. It wasn't necessarily, it wasn't necessarily like, a balanced way to eat nut butter, and just having a shitty digest digestion system. I was eating way more than my body could handle and of course, like, blocking everything up.
Ali:
Yeah, I mean, it totally. Like I definitely would binge on peanut butter and almond butter all the time. Whether or not that was, yeah, it could have been like a psychological, you know, sometimes you like talk yourself into thinking that you're intolerant to a food. Like, I feel like it could have definitely been that because, like, I wouldn't just binge I mean, I binge on a lot of things. Like I would even binge on like, roasted sweet potatoes, like random things. It wasn't. Oh, yeah, it wasn't really the food. It was like, I just I don't know, like, the restriction and the quantity. And but yeah, I think I mean, it definitely could have been that because that was something that I did. You know, of course, I was restricting it. So then I finished on it a lot. But that's interesting. I've never thought about that side of it before. But yeah, totally could have been.
Katelyn:
Yeah, I just, I was just curious. And it's, it's just interesting in, in your story, just like, if it was that, or if it wasn't that it really doesn't matter at this point, because you have this amazing product that is just an extension of your healing. And it's delicious. By the way, it's so good. And I love how you have been so forthcoming with using your own experience to launch this and to just really inspire so many other people in your own story and your transparency with just your journey in general business and personal as well too.
Ali:
Thank you so much. Yeah, it's interesting, too, because, I mean, on the brand side, like our mission, I think is and of course I'm biased, because I'm like, we're different. But I really feel like we're so different from a lot of the health food companies out there. Because if you really pay attention, what are they selling? They're selling nutritional value props, right? Like you like if you buy you know, and this isn't to shit on any, like, Vital Proteins or collagen company, but it's like, they're saying, you know, no one's eating collagen, because it tastes good, right? Like, it doesn't say anything, or it smells kind of smells weird. People are eating it because you know, the time protein or it supposedly gives you like glowing skin and healthy nails. And so that's the perfect example of the food that you're only eating it because of the health benefits. Or you know, a kale salad, I had a very few number of kale salads that I was like, that was mind blowingly delicious. Like, most of the time, you're like that was palatable, but it's kale, so I probably should eat it right. So it's healthy for me. And I think what we're trying to do with granola butter is create something that yes, it has high quality ingredients, and nourishes your body, yada, yada. But I don't want that to be the reason people choose to eat our product, I really want to take you back to that place when you were five years old. And you know, you're thinking of what to eat. And you're the only thing that you're thinking about is how it tastes right. And you're craving. And it's just kind of almost like paying homage to my recovery journey and my relationship with food, where I want people to choose granola butter, because it tastes good. And because it makes them happy. And because it's a great way to connect with their, you know, daughter or their loved ones. And I don't know, I just think we've kind of come so far in this wellness industry where people are just selling nutritional value props. And there's nothing wrong with that. Like we definitely you know, I get that you have to, you know, it works like that marketing does work. And we have those customers that come to us. And they're like, you know, I eat this because it's gluten free and vegan and low sugar and I'm like, great. Like that's fine. I don't want to yuck anyone's yum. But at the same time, I think trying to pave this nuanced little path in the wellness industry where it's like, you can have a product that makes your body feel good. And you can eat it because it actually tastes good. Not just because it's good for you.
Katelyn:
Yeah, no, it's both and which is a huge part of the healing process getting out of that black and white either or all or nothing. and embracing the boat. And so I love that. Okay, before we wrap up, tell us the Shark Tank things in like, two minutes or less? Did you get a deal? How did it change your business? What was the most exciting part? What was the least favorite part about it? Go?
Ali:
Okay. Um, yes. So we, this was our fourth time applying. So again, never give up. We made it to the last round and got rejected the last time and I was so crushed. And I was like, I've never applied again, like, and then they reached out to us this time and said, Hey, look, we really want you guys to apply again, not an easy application process by any means. So I heard Yeah, yeah, I'm like, Alright, like, Okay, let's do this. And I was like, this is the absolute last time I'm like, if we don't get accepted, we're never doing this again. So we applied in February of 2021, this year, and we kind of were, you know, throughout the process you here back like, every few weeks or so. And then they told us that we were going to fly out to LA and film at Sony studios in July. So we flew to La filmed it was the craziest experience of my life. Like, I'm somewhat used to being you know, in front of the quote unquote, camera, and the camera being my iPhone, talking on Instagram, whatever. But this was so different. Like, this was so scary. It's one take, you know, there's like, hundreds of producers in the room. Like, it's just crazy. And we, and then after you film, you don't know if your episodes gonna air until like two weeks before it airs. Oh, my God. Yeah. So radio, radio, silence. We didn't hear anything until two weeks before our air date, which was October. So in those two weeks, you're just like, I mean, we manufacture everything in house. So we're just like ramping up production, you know, because you have no idea how much you're going to sell, whatever. So that was crazy. But TLDR Long story short, so we did not get a deal. And for anyone who wants to watch the, the episode, it was episode three, I think season 13. But we're, I mean, I'm so grateful for the opportunity. Number one, like, I got to share my story, which was the first time in Shark Tank history that they'd had someone on talking about this kind of thing. You know, I think they're starting to have more people on to talk about mental health. And there's a lot of founders that have these stories like this, like a lot of companies are born out of this journey. And so I was so grateful to have that platform, and just the oh my god, like the hundreds of I got hundreds of DMS and emails, like even husbands reaching out to me being like, oh, my gosh, like, my wife has struggled with this for so long. And like, who did you talk to? Like, how can I help her and it was just so sweet. I'm actually like, emailing with this grandmother right now, whose daughter is in inpatient treatment. And she's like, What do I say? And just like, I'm writing letters to her granddaughter, and it's like, it's opened up so many cool connections that I never would have thought was possible. And then on the business side, I mean, you know, it's a great exposure, you know, great way for people to learn about your product. But yeah, I think all in all, you know, I'm so glad we did it. Yes, we didn't get a deal. But it was just like a bucket list moment. So it was crazy. Yeah.
Katelyn:
I mean, it sounds incredibly successful on so many levels Deal or No Deal. So I'm over the moon happy for you. I'm so grateful that you shared your story, because you certainly didn't have to. But God, that's, that's so powerful to be in that space and to share. And like I said to you before, I had a client, who acknowledged to me that she saw you on Shark Tank, and I was like, Oh my God, that happens in that episode. And that's amazing. We need more conversations like this in all different spaces and industries, especially on TV. So super cool. Ali this has been such a fabulous conversation. I'm just so appreciative of you sharing your truth and just how vulnerable you were. And you are, because it really is how you show up in the world. And just the time that you took to be with us today. Where can everybody find you? We'll link it all in the show notes, but keep it easy, but what's the easiest way for people to get in touch with you?
Ali:
Yes. Well, first of all, my gosh, thank you so much for having me. Thank you everyone for listening. And I know that was a lot but you can find me so granolabutter.comis our website. Handles on social, mine is just my name @alibonar. And then our brand is @oat.haus and it's H au s. So like the German spelling.
Katelyn:
You can buy it in Whole Foods and online,right?
Ali:
Yeah, Whole Foods and then Thrive Market is our newest online partner we're super excited about.
Katelyn:
Yeah, cool. Fabulous. Thank you. We’ll link all that in the show notes and I cannot wait to see what else you have up your sleeve in the next couple of years and beyond and just cheering you on it's amazing like you.