Episode 82: Embracing Life As A Highly Sensitive Person With Alissa Boyer
Episode 82: Embracing Life As A Highly Sensitive Person With Alissa Boyer
In this episode we sit down with....Alissa Boyer
Alissa Boyer is a Mentor for Highly Sensitive People. She is the founder of the Highly Sensitive & Soulful Membership where she helps other HSPs learn to embrace their sensitivity, manage overwhelm, and thrive in the world. Alissa also writes for the award-winning HSP blog, Highly Sensitive Refuge, as well as her own blog, Life By Alissa.
In this conversation we talk about:
Alissa’s personal body image story- the ways her insecurities held her back in relationships
Her journey of discovering that she is a highly sensitive person
Definition of a Highly Sensitive Person and common triggers
HOW to start speaking up for yourself and create boundaries
Alissa’s personal experiences of having a miscarriage & advice on how to hold space for someone who has one
Connect with our guest...
Resources we mention in this episode…
Use the code BODYTRUTH for a 15% discount on Alissa's HSP Boundary Bundle, a mini-course on boundaries for HSPs!
Ready to heal your relationship with food + body?
Book your FREE Body Trust Breakthrough Consult
Grab your FREE Intuitive Eating Workshop
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TRANSCRIPTION
Episode 82: Embracing Life As A Highly Sensitive Person With Alissa Boyer
Katelyn:
All right, Alissa Boyer. Hi, welcome.
Alissa:
Hi. I'm excited to be here.
Katelyn:
I am so excited to have you here and all of the things that we are about to get into. For everyone who is listening Alissa and I are hat twins in our profile pictures which was such a such a sweet surprise. But I am just so grateful that you're here. Let's do this. You ready?
Alissa:
Yeah, let's do it.
Katelyn:
Alright, so the first question that we ask everyone on the show is your first body awareness moment. If you're open to sharing, I'd love to hear what that looks like for you- that moment where you realized I'm in a body, and this means something in the world that I'm living in. What did that look like? Also, how did that shape your relationship with your body and or food moving forward? Just share your story.
Alissa (body image story):
Yeah, so what comes to mind for me, I don't, I don't know exactly how old I was maybe four or five years old, I, I've always I'm tall. I've always been like, really tall. Well, I'm five foot eight now as a woman, but growing up tall kid. And I remember being four or five years old. And being in a classroom must have been maybe a preschool classroom. And we had to take pictures. And I had to stand in the back because I was tall. And I always got told that, but you're such a tall girl, you're going to be so big. And it's, I remember looking at the other little girls in my class and thinking they're so cute and small. And I remember, you know, starting to feel kind of jealous, because I felt I just felt like I was different. Like, as a girl, I shouldn't be this tall. And I kind of, you know, from there over the years, like I kind of viewed it as a bad thing. I'm just feeling like I wasn't this small, little delicate girl, I felt like I was this tall, awkward person. And I remember, as I got older, I would kind of like hunched down a little bit and like, you know, stand in certain ways so that I didn't, you know, appear too tall. It just didn't feel like feminine to me. And it might sound silly to some people, but just to me, I just, I didn't like this about myself. And it, I just felt like it made me kind of stick out. And so, um, you know, that was something I just felt kind of ashamed of. And also, as we got older, and, you know, started being interested in boys, I always felt like the boys liked the girls that were smaller, like shorter people. And I just felt Yeah, I just kind of felt awkward a lot. And so that was really the image I carried of myself throughout. Honestly, throughout all of my school years, it wasn't until I got older and, you know, stopped growing. And the boys started getting taller than me so I didn't feel so uncomfortable about it. But it really was just yeah, this feeling of kind of awkwardness and that I and I felt insecure. Not to mention, I struggled with acne in my teenage years, which a lot of people do. But you know, I had it, I had it pretty bad to the point where like I took Accutane to clear it up and experienced some bullying from these boys in my grade, that would just kind of make fun of my acne and just kind of, you know, make fun of the way I looked. And I just kind of carried this internal belief about myself that I just didn't fit in. And not to mention, I am a highly sensitive person. I've always been a deeply emotional person- I always was very affected by things. I just remember feeling so different and so misunderstood. And I just wanted to be normal. I just wanted to be like a cute normal girl that wasn't so emotional that had nice skin and, and all of that. It's interesting because you know, as I got older and in my 20s you know, you kind of grow into your body. Like I became more comfortable with my height I should say, and my skin cleared up and on the outside people say oh, like you look good, you're fine. But inside it's interesting because I still carried that same feeling of just feeling so insecure and awkward and I struggled with confidence for you know, a long time I just second guessed myself a lot and I can really see how this shaped me I just like struggled with trusting myself and, and loving myself because I just had this like, kind of deep, deep belief. Yeah.
Katelyn:
Yeah, I mean, from everything that you just shared it, it makes so much sense to me this, this belief being so deep and the feedback that reinforced that belief just through the bullying, I mean, I can only imagine how painful that was to have that personal insecurity and then the reinforcement by these adolescent teenage assholes who are really like reinforcing that for you. And God, talk about unpacking- those wounds who they run so deep, and they are, they are so tricky to untangle. So how did you get to the place in your life where you started to realize that this was limiting you? Or, you know what, I guess maybe my question is, what do you feel like it was holding you back from? Do you feel like the insecurity that you experienced- the lack of confidence, the lack of self-trust, and just this internal belief was really preventing you from anything in your life?
Alissa:
Yeah, I think one of the main ways that showed up for me was in relationships. I, so I just struggled to have like, healthy relationships. And I think a big part of it, it was upon reflection, like, it was these boys that were bullying me, you know, so it was like me, it often kind of came back to me feeling unattractive to men, because of that reinforcement. And just, again, feeling tall and like, awkward. And so yeah, going into relationships, I often would accept less than I actually deserved, I had a very toxic relationship in college. That was very clear in retrospect, that my low self-worth is what got me into that relationship, because, you know, I just accepted poor behavior and poor treatment. So it was, you know, and I'm, I've been able to be pretty successful up until that point, like I was, I moved out to California when I was 22 years old, like, I still, you know, I didn't let it stop me from living my life. But I do notice the ways that it did affect me. And I would say, mainly in relationships. Um, but when I was 23, I met my now husband, and like, he is amazing. And I knew and when I met him, I'm like, Oh, my gosh, like, this is the one. And I also knew that I was struggling with my own insecurities. And I knew that that could be an issue in this relationship, if I didn't, you know, find a way to work on it. Because with feeling so insecure, it just would make me often second guess, like, oh, why would he want to be with me, he's so great. Like, I would often find myself kind of, you know, getting into that sort of tailspin because I just didn't feel good enough. And it was, I had something really, really great right in front of me that I knew I didn't want to lose, I really knew that I had to work on this. And it was around the time that I met my husband that I also learned I was a highly sensitive person. And it was such a time of self-discovery. For me. I like the whole highly sensitive person journey, this, this all kind of ties in. I was dealing with some really bad digestive issues. I was like, chronically sick, like, really bad digestive issues, I could hardly eat more than 30 different foods at one point because everything made me super sick. And I learned in working with a holistic doctor that my digestive issues were really brought on by emotional stress and anxiety. I was constantly stressed, I was constantly anxious, I was just always on edge. I didn't have healthy practices in my life. So, I learned that I was highly sensitive person, which was really causing me to be so stressed and so impacted by everything, which was feeding into my digestive issues. So, kind of a long-winded answer here, but in my early 20s it all kind of came to a head. There was such an opportunity for me to grow as a person and make a change. My health, you know, my health was demanding it I was I had a great relationship in front of me and I was learning that I was highly sensitive. So, I really dove into the deep self-work and wanted to make a difference once and for all. And it was it was hard. But it's like amazing, you know, it made me who I am today.
Katelyn:
Sure. And I think it is so powerful when we can name these things for ourselves because it's not to create labels, but it does give us a jumping off point to dive deeper into doing the inner work or the outer work if needed- outer meaning like the environment that we're in, or how we're communicating or whatever, which is kind of internal and external. But for you, what were some of the things when you had this information when you were able to name this for yourself? What was some of that inner work that you really started to commit to doing?
Alissa:
Yeah, yeah. So, I love what you're saying about the labels. Like, like, if I've Yeah, I don't want to say like, Oh, you have to put a label on yourself or whatever, carry that around. But I found such a freedom in learning about the trait of being a highly sensitive person and being able to connect with it. Because it was the first time in my life, I honestly felt understood, I was like, Oh, this is, this is why I've always been so affected by things. This is why I've always felt so different and so sensitive, it just like was so freeing for me, and it felt like such a big unlock. So yeah, when I once I learned that, that I really started to understand that for me, personally, it was essential to take really, really good care of myself, meaning I needed to have a mindfulness practice in my life, in order to seriously be able to function in a healthy way in the world. Like, because I am somebody who's prone to anxiety, I have to meditate every single morning. And so, meditation was really the unlock for me in getting to know myself on a deeper level and working through these things. So, I began meditating just simply as a stress reduction technique. But it turned into Yeah, just a time where I really got to know myself on a deeper level and, and I started to understand some of my triggers and some of these, like, deep seated insecurities that I was still holding on to. So, at the time, I hadn't realized how much the bullying had affected me and my self-confidence. I hadn't realized how much that my past toxic relationships had really, you know, affected me and how I was still carrying that. So that was just like, really a moment to like to really dig deep. I also was working with a holistic doctor at the time to help me through my digestive issues. And one of the things we worked on together was really getting to the root of the emotional stressors in my life. And I got to know myself so well from that too, because he would be able to see, like, he could tell like, okay, stress, or you're always feeling really stressed out at work, you have these perfectionist tendencies. And we were able to link that back to childhood and me really comparing myself to my brother and like, wanting validation. And it was like, kind of putting the pieces together and getting to know myself and really looking under the covers. And yeah, and then I could really love myself in the like, an authentic way because I wasn't hiding this stuff anymore.
Katelyn:
Mm hmm. Yes, I'm so happy that you had this experience. And it is so powerful when we can really dig into the root and I'm just curious for you, how did that feel at first- really starting to unpack some of these things and make these discoveries- that it wasn't just surface, the things that you were experiencing- that it really, a lot of it went back to childhood and just these little T traumas in your life that had kind of been building up through throughout the years.
Alissa:
Yeah, to me it honestly felt exciting. Like, of course, there's some discomfort in working through these things. A lot of times it was like, really like that bothered me, like, you know, because some of it just doesn't seem like a big deal. But I also do want to note that for people who are highly sensitive, trauma will impact us more deeply than less sensitive people because our nervous systems are super sensitive. So that was another thing I was learning is like, you know, maybe something that happened, the same thing could have happened to someone else. wouldn't have been a big deal. But when it happened to me, like, it just felt like a bigger deal. But yeah, so honestly, those discoveries did feel exciting in many ways. And also, it just opened my mind to a whole different world. It created a lot of inspiration for me, because I was unlocking these, these issues and starting to feel better. And it just changed the way that I looked at the world. I started getting really into spirituality, and just being really curious about how everything is connected and, and, you know, just being really obsessed with like, self-development and feeling better. And so, actually, this experiences what caused me to start writing and start my blog, which, you know, that was, that's what led me to the work I'm doing today. So, it really inspired me, it just put me on this path that like completely changed my life. And a lot of people like a lot of people who are highly sensitive, feel frustrated sometimes because you kind of have to take really good care of yourself in order to feel good, like you do have to, you know, be mindful of, of how you navigate your day and make sure you take breaks and things like that. And I actually love that about being highly sensitive, because it forces me to get to know myself on a really deep level, like I am so connected with myself by I feel very in tune with my body because I am so sensitive. And I wouldn't have had that, you know, experience if I hadn't had the digestive issues and, and had the insecurities, I wouldn't have been forced to like, take a deeper look. I'm really grateful for all of that, honestly.
Katelyn:
Yeah, you know what's so interesting in your story that I'm just kind of connecting to and I would love to learn more is the insecurity, this deep insecurity and identity around the insecurity that you're really speaking to, and possibly the avoidance of giving yourself that permission to really get to know yourself even more deeply, because this insecurity is so strong. And then eventually, by way of beginning to do this work around discovering how to use your highly sensitive tools, and giving you the permission to like yourself, love yourself, really discover yourself and in this work How can you make sense of that today? Like, what were some of those walls that you felt like were so strong at the time that were really preventing you from getting to know yourself? When you were in that deep insecurity? What was the fear or just as some of the emotions that were coming up? And the reasons why it felt so challenging?
Alissa:
Yeah, the main thing was, I had just always felt this really deep sense of that the way that I was, was wrong and bad. I just was always so passionate. And so like, I was always told I was dramatic, emotional, too sensitive, too much. I heard that all the time. And you know, at home, my parents are amazing, but like, you know, no one's perfect. I heard that in relationships, like, gosh, you're so emotional. And I just always had this really firm belief that the way that I was, was wrong and bad, and it caused problems. And because of that I was a problem. And I think there was a lot of shame in who I was, and just thinking that I needed to hide that from people, otherwise I wouldn't have healthy relationships- like no one would want to get to know the real me. So that was Yeah, that was definitely there. And I covered it up because I was such a people pleaser. I was, you know, I always just did whatever I could to be liked by people and often let myself be walked all over because there's just, I just didn't want them to find out who I really was. And yeah, it was just a deep shame. It took a long time to get to a point of actually accepting, like first even hearing about the term HSP highly sensitive person- the fact that it was a term and a trait. Like that just shifted my mind because it was literally the first time I was like, Oh, so maybe it's like maybe it's okay that I'm like this Like maybe it's actually acceptable. It just hadn't crossed my mind. Before that ever. So yeah, it was just very deep seated for me.
Katelyn:
I'm also a highly sensitive person, Alissa and I resonate so much with your story and what you're sharing. And I love how you described it as this freeing feeling when you were able to name it, I felt the same way too. And it was, it was a moment where I was like, just like your saying, I was able to make sense of why I felt things so deeply and really felt them in our body. I mean, we store our emotions and our body. But for me, it was always so intense. And I was able to really understand some of my triggers, and how to really work with my body in a really different way than I ever had before. What were some of the triggers that you discovered and in your life that might still be relevant today? And how do you support yourself around those triggers when they come up?
Alissa:
Yeah, yes. So definitely hear you like, when it's the thing about being so sensitive, it's like, we can seriously use it as like a compass to guide us because our bodies can have such a visceral reaction and it can be hard, and it can be awesome when we learn how to really listen to it. For me, a huge trigger is like being rushed. Like anytime I'm rushed, it just like instantly kicks in the anxiety. And I will easily get a stomachache and just feel so frazzled. So as often as I can, I try to build extra time for myself to really transition into the next thing I need to do. So, I can avoid being rushed as much as possible. And my husband who is not highly sensitive, he now knows, like, give me time, like, give me time at like a heads up. So, I'm not having to rush. Sometimes it's unavoidable. And with that, I just try to ground myself as much as I can. So, I'm not feeling crazy overwhelmed, like, you know, it's part of life, we're gonna have these moments that are uncomfortable, and it's okay. Another thing that's a trigger for me is, I just will put a lot of pressure on myself. I am definitely an overachiever and have done work at getting better about resting and things like that. But yeah, I just have very high standards for myself. And so, it's really important for me to check in with myself and be realistic about what I energetically have space for sometimes. You know, I'll have all these items on my to-do list and think I need to get through all of it. But when I check in with my body, sometimes I'm truly exhausted. And the best thing for me would be to just chill out and read a book and like I can get to the list later. So yeah, it really looked like me checking in with myself and assessing where I'm at, rather than trying to bulldoze through things, just because I think that I should because that I've done that in the past. And that's what gets me sick and burnt out. So, I have to be very mindful of those things. And it's taken me time and trial and error to understand my triggers, and then, you know, actually respect them enough to treat myself well through it.
Katelyn:
Yep. I'm so glad that you said that I resonate with what you're saying as well, too. And this is, this is also really common in this community. I'm a big proponent of just checking in with where that bar is that we're setting for ourselves. And so often we just normalize the high expectation that we set that we don't even realize how high it is. And so just like you're saying, being really mindful of checking in throughout the day and acknowledging, okay, where is that bar? Where is that expectation? Is it realistic? Is there an opportunity to bring it down a notch? When I do that? What belief is that bumping up against how to take care of myself from the moment just, it's so juicy when we get into it, and we really can just take care of ourselves in a completely different way. This is the definition of self-care, in my mind- really just showing up for yourself in this way. It's less about doing and more of just being present. I resonate with all you're saying and one other thing for me is environment too- I don't know if you feel this way, too, but I'm super sensitive to the spaces that I'm in and I can just tell right away. Like I'm very sensitive to lighting, which sounds crazy. But I like overhead Lights like top lights, I just cannot. The stores that I go into like, I love Nordstrom Rack, but I hate the layout of it because the lights are so intense. I hate going to Costco because it's just so chaotic. I love like, I need a cozy space. And that, like that's something that I've had to work through on my own too, because the story that I've had in my mind is, I'm, I'm so needy, or I'm high maintenance, even though I'm not necessarily articulating this out loud. I would just kind of like sit and suffer in these spaces versus standing up for myself and saying, I'm not, I'm not going there, or I'm not doing that and just communicating in a different way. I don't know if you relate to that at all, but it's a big one for me.
Alissa:
Oh, yeah, no, I very much relate to all of that. I was just thinking, like, yesterday, I ran to the grocery store, and I was gonna go to Ralph's. But I honestly don't like the Ralph's by my house, like, I just makes me just feel like blah. But then there's this market that's a little bit further and a little bit more expensive. And I was like, you know, I had the decision, I'm like, Am I gonna go to Ralph's and kind of feel stressed and not happy? Or am I going to go to this other market, and I decided to go to the other market. And it's like, such a pleasant experience. And so that's just like one silly little example. No, really, it's everything.
Katelyn:
It's everything. I love that you said that because it sounds small and silly. But that's a specific moment, that's a choice that you made in your life. That's one moment of pleasure and satisfaction in your day. And the more that we choose from that place of what feels good, what feels really satisfying, even if it feels really small. That's where the high achievers come in, just take, take the moment to string them together. And that creates this feeling of satisfaction through the day, and just your entire day when you zoom out and look at it. So, I think it's so important to be in tune with that. And I've it's something I have to check in with personally, for myself to Alyssa, let's talk about the definition of a highly sensitive person, I just realized that we had not done that yet. So, everybody who's listening might be resonating with this. So, let's just break it down. You're the expert here. What is a highly sensitive person? Just share your wisdom with us if you don't mind.
Alissa:
Yeah, of course. Yeah. Good idea. So highly sensitive person. So, this is a trait that was coined by Dr. Elaine Aaron in the early 90s 1990. So, it's like fairly new, a lot of people don't necessarily know about it, but man it's like such a really helpful thing to know about. So a highly sensitive person is somebody who is more affected by their environment, we're going to be more word processing very deeply. So, we're really wired differently than non-highly sensitive people, we have nervous systems that are more sensitive. So, we're going to be more impacted by things, like you said- like bright lights, weird smells, or any kind of smell, and we're going to be more sensitive to that. The way our clothing feels like, a highly sensitive person might really be aware of that itchy tag or those you know, pants just fitting a little bit weird. Like we're very aware, we also process things on a very deep level, we, you, you probably don't realize you're doing it because it's literally so natural to you. But we're making connections and noticing patterns, a lot of HSP's tend to be really conscientious. We're very much like people who are thoughtful, that are often thinking of other people, because we actually have an ability to have more empathy than other people. And this is related to us having more active mirror neurons in our brain, which are responsible for empathy. So, a lot of highly sensitive people are going to be the people that their friends go to for advice. You usually kind of know what people need to hear, you can sense when someone is sad and needs to be lifted up. We're generally kind of natural caretakers because of that. We also are really good at sensing subtleties. So again, you'll just kind of notice that the shift in somebody’s facial expression, you know, or their body language, so we tend to be really good with emotional intelligence. And then of course, yeah, we are going to be more emotionally sensitive as well. I think when people hear the term, highly sensitive person, you automatically think oh, it's just somebody who's emotional and cries all the time. And that's not necessarily the case. Yes, we tend to be more emotional. But it doesn't just mean you're crying all the time or anything like that. It's also about, yeah, just like how you're impacted by your environment, and, and all of that. And then another really key part of that trait is the fact that we get overwhelmed more easily than others. And then this is the one part of the trait that I would say is probably a, you know, the biggest challenge. It's just Yeah, the overwhelming, we are going to be more affected by the things happening to us. And with our sensitive nervous systems, things like being rushed, or having somebody talking in a harsh tone, or you know, a last-minute change, like those things can feel more overwhelming to us because of our sensitive nervous systems. So that's why it's just really important for us to take great care of ourselves, because of the way we're wired.
Katelyn:
Is someone born an HSP? Or is this on an environmental basis based on circumstances in life? How does this become developed in oneself?
Alissa:
Yeah, so there's a lot of conversation about this. Dr. Aaron, who wrote the book says that you are born with it. But there's also this understanding that a person can become more or less sensitive, based, or due to their environment. So yeah, so they've been able to like, look at babies, and they can tell right away that they're an HSP. Baby, because of the way they're responding to light and noise. And yeah, yeah. Yeah, so it's just like, the way Yeah, they'll be able to really notice those things like, from what my parents told me, they could tell. I mean, they didn't know the term back then. But it just doesn't surprise me. So yeah, there is definitely something you, many people are born with. However, somebody can also become highly sensitive, if they have a big trauma in their life, it can cause them to be very hyper vigilant, and things like that. But I would say, like, those people probably already are on the spectrum of HSP. But it's, you know, it can be intensified due to life events. And I also want to say that being a highly sensitive person is a trait I think I did say that but just to reiterate, it's a trait it's not a disorder, it's not something that needs to be diagnosed. I like to compare it to being an introvert or an extrovert. It's just the way that you're wired.
Katelyn:
I'm so glad that you mentioned that- it's a trait. It's not something that is necessarily meant to be overcome. It's from how you're describing it and how I use it in my life. It's basically how to work with yourself based on who you are, and how you show up in the world. Versus like, it's not about fixing it's about being and just like learning more about this trade and living into it and taking care of yourself from that. That point. Yeah, I love that distinction. Um, who do you feel like this ever gets confused with? I'm, I'm you just mentioned extroverts and introverts. How does this correlate? Is one more susceptible than the other to being an HSP? Because I think the natural tendency that people would go with is well, I'm sure most introverts are HSP’s. Is that true? Or can you I'm an extrovert, and I'm an HSP. Is this common? I don't even know.
Alissa:
Yeah. So no, not all introverts are HSP’s. There are commonalities between introverts and HSP’s. One being that highly sensitive people tend to need more time to kind of retreat and recharge, and have just, you know, some time alone. So there, you know, there's that combination there. And then also introverts have a tendency to really think deeply and be very, sometimes cautious before they speak or just really put a lot of thought into it before they say something. And so that can be common with highly sensitive people too. But most of them want to. I don't want to get the number wrong, but I want to say it's 70 to 80%. Some of them are introverts, so HSP's are mostly introverts, but yes, there are some HSP extroverts, I know a few of them, so that's cool that you're one too. So, it's not as common but it's definitely a thing.
Katelyn:
Well, it's, it's interesting that you just said needing to retreat and take time for yourself. I was actually just talking about this with my therapist yesterday. Because for this is so wild. For so much of my life. I thought that I was always an extroverted introvert, so I had kind of been walking around naming myself as an introvert. And I recently discovered that I'm, I'm an extrovert. And I don't think that would surprise anybody. But in my mind, I was kind of using all of these introvert tools and getting really confused with how to use my energy. And one of the things that I was acknowledging in my therapy session yesterday, is, I, I have this desire to be with people, like I feel so filled up after I am with people, especially having really intentional connections and meaningful conversations and, and really just being with human bodies in general, like that's really life giving for me, which is a quality of extraversion, but I also have this intense need to be by myself, I'm completely fine. Do we doing things on my own, I'm not somebody who needs to be around somebody all the time. Like, I really appreciate my rest time in my downtime, and I, I need that that's a tool in my day. And I think that is a part of being an HSP really needing to fill up my energy tank and that way too, so it's kind of working with the two hand in hand. Does that resonate at all with what I'm sharing?
Alissa:
Oh, yeah, it definitely resonates with me. And that's what I hear from other extroverted HSP's too. It's such a balance of like, okay, I want to be around people. I know, this energizes me, but then also, being aware of that, like, having that time alone to recharge. And all of that is also restorative for you. I think that understanding is so important. And there's another term, because I'm an introvert. But there's another term that Dr. Elaine Aaron talks about that she shares on her website. And it's this idea of being a high sensation seeker. She has this self-test on her website that you can take to determine if you're a high sensation seeker. And so, people who are high sensation seeking can be introverted, but they seek experiences that give them a sensation. So, wanting to travel to a new place, rather than going to the same old spot, being open to doing a risky activity like skydiving or something like that. Those are just a couple examples. So, for me, yeah, it makes so much sense.
Katelyn:
Yeah. I want to hear from you. But that just really struck a chord with some of the people in my life I know that will resonate with me and myself included, but what's your experience with it?
Alissa:
Yeah, so that's me, I'm high sensation seeking, like, I don't remember my score on it, but like on the higher end. And so that was an interesting balance. And things to understand, as well. It's like, I'm an introvert. So, I like my time alone, but I also crave new experiences. I do like to be around people, you know, all of that. And I am highly sensitive. So just like learning all those things and learning how to balance and fill all of those cups. It's just that awareness is so helpful. And it's, and you can be all of those, of course. Yeah, just knowing that about yourself is great.
Katelyn:
I think it's so helpful. And I love how you just said, just balancing all of the cups and knowing where to put your energy and just checking in with yourself around all of that, too. So, one thing that you mentioned before about highly sensitive people is having a high rate of empathy. And just this helping trait that I'm really gathering and this listening quality and wanting to be there to support people naturally, because it's so life giving to so many HSP's- I think that role of a helper is so woven into this trait. And I'd be curious about your thoughts on that. But this is where I feel like it gets really tricky being an HSP and having these amazing skills and qualities that you bring to the world and knowing where to set boundaries and where it's the skill that you're leaning into versus actually people pleasing and beginning to distinguish the two how, how do you navigate that?
Alissa:
Yeah, that's such a big one. And it's like one of the biggest struggles I have seen in many of the HSP's I work with- so yeah, we are natural caretakers. Often, we know what people need, which is wonderful. It's a great skill to have. But there is definitely a fine line where it gets to a point of people-pleasing and over giving and depleting ourselves. And that's the place I find a lot of HSP’s. And they're feeling very resentful. They're feeling like everyone takes advantage of them, and they're always doing way more for everyone else, then, then people are doing it for them. And what I find that the root of that most often is, is low self-worth and finding validation in being that helper, and always being the person to fix problems. And from what I've shared, you know, like, I know that intimately, I was that person. And so, a lot of times, it can be coming from an unhealthy place where we're over giving and overextending ourselves because, in a deep way, we just want to be validated, we want people to like us, we want to be told that we're good enough. And I find that a lot of HSP's really are giving from that place and don't realize it. And so that's why I think learning about the trade and then beginning to embrace it about yourself really can heal a lot of these issues. Because when we start to accept who we are, and understand the way that we're wired, then we want to take better care of ourselves. And we don't want to spend our time giving from an empty cup like and depleting ourselves, it's just, it's not a good way to care for yourself, it's not a good way to live. So, I teach boundaries to my HSP clients. And a lot of people are scared about it, they think saying no makes them a bad person, they're afraid they're, they're going to upset people. And I always tell people to just like, start super small and start getting comfortable with the energy of setting a boundary and really prove to yourself that you're capable of it. So, like an example I always share is, if you have a friend that's always texting you with their issues, and you always stop whatever you're doing, and you text them back right away. But then you notice that makes you feel so exhausted, practice sending them a response and say, Hey, I'm really busy right now I can get back to you at six o'clock tonight or something like that and start setting these small boundaries. And it really, you know, helps you feel more empowered. And it shows you that you're capable of taking care of yourself and standing up for yourself. And I found that to be such a good remedy for those who are over giving and people pleasing.
Katelyn:
I think that's such a great example. And very often I think one of the biggest challenges is overcoming the all or nothing mindset that black and white thinking where it's, I either have to text them right away or not at all, and really being comfortable finding that shade of gray, which is so important. And just like you're saying, acknowledging, it's not either or it's both and you got to respond to your friend, and you get to take care of yourself by just communicating. But this is really a skill it sounds like, and I use this in my community too. And absolutely for myself. And it's definitely taken a lot of work to get up and running. And it's still a constant practice, because it's a skill, you have to maintain it. But just getting in that practice of like you're saying, communicating what you're available for clearly what you need. And I've found that it just creates such robust relationships when you're able to do that, because it gives the other person so much space to show up as they need to be seen as well, too.
Alissa:
Oh, yeah, absolutely. I love that you said robust relationships like exactly that. Because a lot of times, like we're harboring all of this resentment and feeling like oh my gosh, I just do way more for everyone else than they do for me. And so, we're giving to people from this depleted, resentful place, and it's not healthy. And so yeah, when we show ourselves the respect of setting a boundary and actually being there for that friend, when we have the space, we can show up so much better. I love this quote. I had heard it's like boundaries are the way we teach people to treat us. And if we're feeling taken advantage of, well, where are you teaching people that it's okay to do that? I'm huge on empowering sensitive people. And I always say, it's up to us to show them what's okay. And we do that by setting a healthy boundary because we respect and love ourselves enough to do that.
Katelyn:
Oh, I love that and it's so scary when you Start doing it. But it's, it's essential. And it is so great when you step into that fear. And you can just calm your nervous system down gently, little by little. And yeah, like you're saying you empower yourself, you empower the other person. I mean, it's just a win-win for everyone. And I appreciate you sharing that so much. Also, one thing that's coming to my mind, too, I cannot remember who I heard this from, but it really stuck with me. For anybody who is listening, who is like, how do I know when a boundary is being crossed? Like how do I even begin to work with that? One thing that really stood out for me is when you feel that ping of resentment, or when you are feeling any kind of resentment in your life- that's almost always a clear signal that a boundary is being violated in some way. How do you feel about that? And is there anything else that? Is there a tool that you have for navigating when a boundary is being crossed that you might be able to share?
Alissa:
Yeah, well, I love what you said that feeling of resentment, I think that's the main thing that people will be able to recognize quickly, like, oh, man, this doesn't feel good. I'd also say just noticing the times when you're feeling like your time, energy space is not being respected. So, if it feels like somebody is just being pushy with you, and you don't feel like you're being respected. Like that's another time to look if there's a boundary being crossed. An example I could give is, say you're really busy at work. And your boss knows you're really busy, but they keep piling work on top of you. Like, this isn't a time when you need to set a boundary and say, Hey, I only have the bandwidth to do these three projects, like what needs to come off of my plate in order for me to, to get this work done. I would say, feeling disrespected, is another one to really pay attention to.
Katelyn:
Yeah, I love that you're sharing that. And one thing I'm picking up on from that example, is the importance of communication. And I think that can be so challenging for so many people just working up the courage to communicate what they actually need to really find their voice. So, we've established why that's so important, because it really allows us to set boundaries and take care of ourselves from that standpoint, but how do we get there? If somebody is like, that sounds great, but that is terrifying, just speaking up and actually articulating or asking for that- what's maybe one gentle baby step that somebody might be able to resonate with and take away?
Alissa:
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I totally understand the fear of it. I think we have to work our way to the big scary ones. And we don't have to jump right in. And so really, just starting with the small boundaries that you can set where it's a safe sided practice- setting it with someone you feel safe with. So, an example I'll give is, I collaborate with this other HSP mentor, he's awesome. And we meet like every other week on zoom. And there was a period of time where I was really busy. And I wasn't able to make our meeting for a few, a few weeks. And so, that was an opportunity where he's a friend that I know, he's not going to get mad at me. I know he respects me as a person. And the boundary I needed to set was that I can't meet so frequently during this busy season of my life. And so, so I did that. It was like practice for me to like, speak up and say what I needed. And then he was able to understand and respect boundaries. My big advice would be to practice it in areas of your life with people that you feel safe with, that aren't going to blow up at you. Because I think the big thing is, the action is then proving to ourselves that we have our own back and that's the energy that I want people to get into, like, I have my own back, I can stand up for myself. I think repetition helps and I think starting in a way that feels safe to the nervous system and not overwhelming is really key.
Katelyn:
I think so too. This is why I'm such a big proponent of getting support and however that's accessible for you. I coach one-on-one and I really encourage all my clients to use our container as the safe space to practice this, but if it's not one-on-one coaching or therapy, this can either be really valuable in a small group that you're a part of, or a team that you're a part of that you feel safe in, or a friend that you feel safe with but just like you're saying, or said, those, those people in your lives, and it might not be so obvious. So, taking some time to think about it is really important, but the people that you really feel like you can practice with and build this skill, and then take the next step. Everything you shared, I really resonate with, I appreciate it.
Alissa:
Yeah, absolutely, it really helps you get the courage to work up to those, those bigger moments. And I think boundaries are one of the best ways we can really show ourselves love and respect. And it's just crucial. Yeah, for sensitive people to, to know how to put that into practice. Like, I'll share, I've had to set some big boundaries recently in my life. As I shared with you, I had a miscarriage a month ago, and I had it just like, totally rocked my world. And you know, of course being so sensitive, it affected me very deeply. And I think a lot of times, I mean, it's, it's kind of just there's a lot of stigma around that topic. And I think a lot of times, women don't really know how to handle it, and they go right back to work. And they're like, Well, you know, no one, a lot of people don't even know that, that they experienced that loss. So, they just go right back to work and back to their normal life. And I didn't want to do that. I knew that wasn't going to be good for me. I knew I needed to like the process of what had happened. And so, I took two weeks off, and I cleared my schedule. And I was like, this is time for me to process. And it was nerve wracking to do that, because I had some new clients on my schedule. And I didn't want to seem flaky. I didn't want to let anyone down. But I also knew that my mental health and my emotional well-being needed to come first in order for me to show up for anyone in a healthy way. And so that's like, I mean, I grew so much from that experience, because it was the ultimate way of loving myself and being like, No, you need this space right now. It's really powerful.
Katelyn:
It's so powerful. For everyone who's listening, Alissa and I did talk about this before we hit record- your miscarriage, I'd love to pivot to that for everyone in this community because like we were sharing before, this is such a taboo topic, but it happens to so many people. And we're just not talking about it enough. And it also seems more common now than it was before. And it's maybe because we are talking about it more, but it also doesn't take away the gravity of the emotional experience. So, going through it yourself. What, what would you like to share from your own experience that you feel like is really valuable for people to know about the process of having a miscarriage and just any type of stigma that you are passionate about? crushing around us?
Alissa:
Yeah. It's definitely just not talked about a lot. And there's a lot of I think a lot of people feel shame around it or just, I don't know it, because it's not talked about, but it is very common one in four pregnancies will result in miscarriage. And it's just, it's just a fact. And so, when I found out I was pregnant, my husband and I had the conversation, like when are we going to tell our friends and family and I was about to go on a trip with some friends. And it was like a makeup bachelorette party for me. And I knew in normal times, I would totally have a glass of wine. And my friends know me. And I knew that if I saw them, and I didn't have any wine, they would be like what's going on with you? So anyway, we made the decision. Yeah, I'm like, I can't deny this. And so, we made the decision, we would tell our friends and family earlier than most people do. Most people, a lot of people just wait till after the first trimester at like 12 or 13 weeks, but I was six weeks. So that's pretty early. When we told our friends and family, we had the conversation. You know, we were like, God forbid anything happens. We will have support. So that's how we went into it. And I really wasn't worried. That's the thing. I wasn't worried about it. I knew it could happen, but I just thought oh that that happens to other people. It won't happen to me but yeah, I went in for our eight-week scan- my first ultrasound and they told me that the baby was not at the size it should be. It was only measuring six weeks instead of eight weeks. And then, you know, they're like, we'll have you come back and see if there's any growth. And of course, I was super nervous, but I was hopeful. And then I came back and there wasn't any growth, and they said it was an abnormal pregnancy. And so, I ended up having to get a procedure called a DNC, where they, you know, they ended the pregnancy because it's just not viable. It's, it's not, it's not going to make it. And it's just, it's such a difficult experience. Because when you're pregnant, your body changes, and you immediately notice the changes and being so sensitive, I was very aware of all the changes, and I also am a very spiritual person. And so, I immediately felt very connected to this baby, and you're carrying them around with you constantly. So, you're constantly talking to them and all of that. Having a miscarriage is hard on you physically. Once I knew the pregnancy wasn't viable, then I still had to wait like four or five days for the procedure. So, I'm carrying this baby, that's no longer going to make it. My pregnancy hormones are there, but I know I'm not going to be pregnant soon. It's just a whole it's super emotional and hard to come to terms with. And so yeah, I and I, I was glad it was hard to have to tell her friends and family that it wasn't going to work out that, you know, we had a miscarriage, it was hard, but I have no regrets telling people because it was the time for us to be supported by the people who love us and care about us. And I for me not holding it in. Because I talked about it, I eliminated the shame because I wasn't feeling like I needed to hide it. And so, I found a lot of healing in actually sharing about it with people.
Katelyn:
What were some of those emotions coming up for you? You just mentioned shame. Was that something that you were experiencing when you miscarried?
Alissa:
Yeah, shame. Yeah, shame, embarrassment. Because for me, I think it was really just feeling like, like, my body didn't do what it was supposed to do. And like our doctors said it, you know, again, it's so common, it was likely just abnormal cells came together, it just, it just is the luck of the draw. So, there was literally nothing we could have done to prevent it or anything like that. But yeah, but still just feeling shame. And I guess I felt embarrassed because I had shared with people and I was so excited. And I felt embarrassed that I couldn't do this. And, and also just seeing other women who were pregnant and having a healthy pregnancy, I felt just inadequate compared to them. Because it was kind of like, well, well, how come? How come it didn't work for me? So, there's a lot of emotions tied to it. It's just like it plus when your hormones are going crazy. It's just like, really, really intense.
Katelyn:
Yeah, absolutely. You mentioned that taking some time off and really creating some boundaries for yourself during this period, and also communicating what was going on- those were some things that really helped you out in this process. Was there anything else that you found to be really helpful that might help somebody else who's going through this right now, a tool that you use, or just something that you really leaned into that gave you comfort?
Alissa:
Yeah, a lot of things. Um, I've really leaned heavily into all the practices. The first thing I would say, was finding a way to honor the baby was really important to me. Really acknowledging that it was a life and that it existed. That mattered to me. So, my husband and I are going to plant a tree in our yard, and I have this little cute stick that says, "in memory of our baby". Doing that to me is very healing because it's a way to honor the baby. And that made me feel good. I also found a lot of comfort in really, I would, I leaned in a lot to my spiritual practice, like a lot. I listened to a lot of spiritual podcasts, I really leaned into my meditation practice and because when things are hard, it can just feel so heavy and so just kind of like giving that up to a higher power was so important for me. I also went to Got, like several Reiki energy healing sessions to just kind of clear my energy and support myself and also just a lot of tears like I did, I cried a lot. And I didn't try it, you know, I just let it be and I didn't try to guilt myself like, why are you crying so much like, get over it, I just really was let that be there. And the combination of all of those things just helped me navigate this in a way that I'm proud of, because I'm feeling a lot better. And, and I know that means I'm healing from it.
Katelyn:
It sounds like you gave yourself a lot of space to just go through this grieving process. And without rushing it to which I, I think can be, I mean, that's a testament to the work that you've really done for yourself, and just your own journey. But I know how uncomfortable that can be to give yourself permission to feel these really big feelings. And this is one of the reasons why we use avoidance as a coping tool so often. I know it's a practice, and I am so glad that you were able to go through that. And I know that so many people will listen to this and just feel inspired to use one or if not all of the things that you're sharing, if they ever need to in their own journey. What did you appreciate the most from the people in your life during this time? For me, like I mentioned, I've never been pregnant, I have, unfortunately, witnessed. A lot of friends and family go through miscarriages. And for me, it's always been that thought of, what do I say? What should I do? How do I hold space for somebody who's going through this right now? And, you know, without overstepping a boundary and with, you know, what did you really need at that time that you were met with? Or that you wish that you had been met with?
Alissa:
Yeah, for me, I really appreciated people checking in with me here and there and just asking how I'm doing and, you know, asking if I want to talk about it. For me, I'm such a communicator. So, I like to talk about things. It's really important for me to do that. I appreciated that a lot. And I think just having people treat it like the last that it is, is so helpful, because it's very validating because again, it's like, no one has met this baby like it's an unseen thing. I think it can be really hard to grasp it, because it's just like they didn't meet this person they don't know. And, so when friends and family really validated it validated it as a true loss and a reason to grieve that was really healing for me to just get that kind of support. Also, another thing is like, it's people that are very well meaning but will say things like, Oh, well, you can have another baby at least, you know, you can get pregnant and all of that. And I'm like, Yes, I'm grateful I was able to get pregnant and I have hope that yes, we'll have another healthy pregnancy but for me, it was like, but I lost this baby and I wanted to meet them and so that, for me just having that that life acknowledged and validated was like, just meant the world to me when people did that. Yeah.
Katelyn:
Thank you for sharing that. And that is such a difficult moment in life. It sounds like you are really honoring your baby in such a beautiful way and I'm just so sorry that you did have to go through that and that you're still going through it right now too because I know that it really is an ongoing grieving process. Thank you for sharing your story with us and all of the things that you just described. It's really beautiful and really powerful.
Alissa:
Thank you. I think I definitely have found a lot of purpose in sharing about it and just helping other people feel seen and not so alone in it. And honestly, you know, just going back to like, the whole highly sensitive person aspect of you know, of my life like in ways Yes, maybe being highly sensitive made it more intense for me but it also just really because I'm so sensitive like it, you're you experienced the depths of life, you experience the richness of life, everything is just is I feel like it's just felt on a deeper level. And I think because of that there's so much opportunity. I honestly think being so sensitive really supported me because I was open to really going inward with this and really tapping into my feelings here. And I think that actually was very supportive and healing journey.
Katelyn:
Yeah, and how beautiful like you were able to feel like validated with your emotions because you know how important they are in your life versus feeling like they're a problem at this time. And that's, you know, just kind of coming full circle with your own journey with being an HSP. That's just such another example of how powerful it is when we can really name these things for ourselves and work with our bodies rather than against them. And also, our traits- working with our natural born traits and characteristics rather than against them as well, it allows us to tap into this really deep, rich, juicy authenticity, and self-expression. So well, Alyssa, this has just been such a great conversation, I have learned so much. I just absolutely appreciate you and your time and your energy for showing up and sharing your story and also your expertise with us. So, first of all, thank you. And secondly, where can everybody find you? Because I know everyone will want to connect. What's the easiest place to get in touch?
Alissa:
Yeah, well, thank you so much for that. I've loved having this conversation. And I don't often get to talk about body image and go down that route. So that's, it's been really fun for me. And yeah, so the main way people can get in touch, I would say, follow me on Instagram. I post so much HSP content there. So that's life by Alyssa. And there you'll find in my bio- I have lots of different links to resources. I have a membership community for highly sensitive people. I'm not sure when this recording will go live. But either enrollment will be open or there will be a waitlist you can join. So, if you're an HSP, and you want to learn more about how to thrive in the world, that is definitely the place to go. So awesome. Yeah.
Katelyn:
Well, thank you. We'll link everything in the show notes to keep it super easy, but I'm just so glad that we got to sit down and have this talk.
Alissa:
Thank you so much. Yeah, me too.