Episode 070 Teri Hofford: How to Stop Hating Your Body In Pictures
Episode 070 Teri Hofford: How to Stop Hating Your Body In Pictures
In this episode we sit down with....Teri Hofford.
Teri Hofford is a Body Image Expert, Photographer, Coach & Author. She helps purpose-driven creatives embrace the beauty of diversity within themselves and the world so they can go forth and create meaningful change. She has been referred to as an emotional dominatrix and "Tough Love Teri" for her bold approach to personal responsibility and self love. Teri is also the author behind the best selling book The Geode Theory: Chipping Away at Body Image and the mastermind behind the Sun’s Out Tum’s Out billboard campaign in 2018. Teri's main mission is to challenge and empower humans to shift their focus from constantly changing their bodies to changing their mindset, so they can start changing the world.
In this conversation we talk about:
Teri's personal body image story
The psychology of looking at ourselves in pictures- WHY so many of us have negative self-bias + HOW to prevent this.
Social media strategies to feel empowered in your mind and body
The importance of self-regulation + self-awareness within our body image
Teri’s favorite tools for overcoming negative body image days.
Connect with our guest...
Resources we mention in this episode…
Ready to heal your relationship with food + body?
Book your FREE Body Trust Breakthrough Consult
Grab your FREE Intuitive Eating Workshop
Get weekly email support from me to help you heal your relationship with food + body image
TRANSCRIPTION
Episode 070 Teri Hofford: How to Stop Hating Your Body In Pictures
Katelyn:
Okay, sweet. All right, lovely Teri Hofford. It's so nice to meet you and be with you and see your face. Thanks for being here today.
Teri:
Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm super excited.
Katelyn:
Yeah, really excited about this conversation. Let's just dive in. I’d love to hear your body image story. And the first question that we ask everybody on the show is your first body awareness moment. So can you just paint the picture of what that looked like? That moment where you realized, shit, I'm in a body and this means something in the world that I'm living in? How did that shape your relationship with yourself, your body food, or anything else? Just tell us your story.
Teri (body image story):
Yeah, for sure. So it's funny, because I always ask this question to my Body Image Boot Camp attendees. So it's like, I have my story, like always. But for me, I was about four years old, and I grew up on a farm. So like, we'd always get together like with family, and extended family, and so on, which sounds like a dream now with COVID. And we always had family dinners and things like that with lots of people. So I always enjoyed that. Because then I could perform for my family, you know, either reading poetry or whatever. And when I was four, I remember I was set on becoming a ballerina, like, this was the vision for me. And so I stood in the middle of the room, and I was like, I'm gonna be a ballerina. And my aunt looked at me and she said, You can't- you're too fat to be a ballerina. And I was four years old. And like, it just sticks in my head, because I was like, what? But that is when I started to realize, Oh, I guess my body can stop me from doing the things that I actually want to do. And so growing up, I was also the biggest kid in my class, of course, our class was only like 12 kids, because, again, the farming community. But being the biggest person in your class and your family, especially when big is taught as bad, is something that you take personally, and so people would tease me about it, because they have to pick on someone, and so that just reaffirmed that moment of my aunt saying that thing because other people now were saying like, yeah, that being fat is bad. So not only is it going to stop me from being a ballerina, but also being big is just a bad thing to be in general. But I'm just a big person. Like I'm quite tall. I'm very muscular underneath the softness. I've just always been that way. And so growing up though, while my aunt was not the nicest woman in the world, she was very honest, I will say that. I had really good parents that didn't really care about bodies. Like being on a farm, your size is an asset, because I always say like, I could carry twice as much as my little sister. And I was very good at doing chores and doing things like that. My family kind of taught us like your body is just your thing to do stuff. Like it's your vessel to do the things. And so my mom never dieted, she never attended Weight Watchers or things like that, whatever was happening at the time. So luckily, while I was being punished for my body at school, I was able to come home and have a reprieve from that overnight, so I would be able to be with a family that basically was just like, yeah, your body's doing stuff all the time. And like them filling me up with purpose and value and mission instead of like you are a body- I think that had a really big impact. And I'm very grateful for that upbringing, because I know it is not the norm for most people that grew up in the 80s with their mothers.
Katelyn:
What's the genetic makeup of your family? Did you feel like when you looked around your family you felt like oh my body is similar to my family or did you feel like it was different from the family members?
Teri:
No, like our family makeup is mostly German and Ukrainian and Polish. So very stocky, European, like humans, but um, the aunt that said that to me, she was probably one of the bigger ones in the family, but she obviously did have her own beliefs about what bodies are capable of. Um, but yeah, so looking at my dad's side of the family, I definitely was very much more like them, like very broad, very stocky, very farm forward, I would say. I was perfect for plowing the fields back in the 1800’s and carrying like 12 children. But then on my mom's side of the family, like even her dad was quite tall and not as broad as my dad's side of the family. But yeah,I looked around and could see my body resembled my family in some capacity.
Katelyn:
Yeah, which is a big deal because there's that element of confirmation of, Oh, I really do belong, I really do fit in from a blood relations standpoint, as well as the confirmation that your family's giving you verbally and just really instilling these beliefs that you're so much more than your body. And also just hearing your story. I'm like, our bodies are so friggin cool. I mean, the fact that you have this lineage of where your family is from, and also being on a farm and the physical labor that requires and all these things, I mean, to your point- “farm forward”- that’s so funny. But can you imagine not having a body that's going to allow you to be able to navigate the earth in that way? It's so cool.
Teri:
But it's like my sister's 18 months apart from me, and she's younger than me. So her body was a very different shape than mine, like I'm very much a rectangle, is how I would reference it. Like, even when I lost weight, it didn't matter, I had no waist, like very much like this. And my sister is the opposite of that, where she has like the child rearing hips, which is good, because she's the one that has the kids, but very, very curvy.. And so people that always compare us, like Teri was the cute one and Cory was the hot one. Like she got the compliments more, which were more geared towards her body. And my compliments are always geared toward me as a person, which I think actually made a huge difference. Because early on, I had to have the self awareness to like, build up my person, because that's what I was getting reinforcement on. And I was okay with that. So I was able to build up my character. Because despite my body, I was all these really cool things as a person, but my sister was getting all these compliments on how great her body looked. And so she grew up thinking that she was more of a body than she was a person. And so she didn't have an opportunity to really develop her character as well, I think because she was so busy focusing on how her body looked, as opposed to what it could do for her.
Katelyn:
Yeah, that's so interesting. And you know, I talk about safety a lot. And just things that keep us safe, that are sometimes wonderful and sometimes really disordered. And it sounds like you both found your safe place in the world to navigate a really impressionable time- hers being her body and that form of currency. And yours being your personality, your values.
Teri:
Yeah. And being the funny fat friend, because that's what you learn. You're like, well, I'll make fun of myself before everyone else does. Because then it hurts less. I call it the Eight Mile Defense if you ever watched Eight Mile with Eminem, you know, at the end, where he's like in the rap battle, and so he says all the insults about himself so that the other guy can't use it against him. And then he wins. That's what I say, what we learn to do is like, well, if I say this about myself, then you can't use it against me. But then what? No, your brain is still like, Oh, this is what we believe. Even if you're laughing about it, this is what your brain believes. And so that becomes your reality and your truth, which obviously is not super great. So, yeah.
Katelyn:
So how did that impact your relationship with yourself and your body image going forward? Especially with, it sounds like a lot of dissonance, where you're navigating school and like the cultural aspect of bodies being fixated on and at the same time coming from this really amazing family that's really instilling these awesome beliefs about not putting your body on a pedestal. How did you get to this place where, well first of all this self deprecating humor, it sounds like it was impacting you- How did that shape you moving forward?
Teri:
Yeah, I think a big part of it for me... Remember what I said about the cat wanting to come over?
Katelyn:
Oh, yeah. Teri has a cat, everyone. In this community, we're big cat people.
Teri:
So push things aside. But anyways, um, for me, it was very much. Again, I think I was more self aware as a child that maybe a lot of people are. And I think a big part of that had to do with having outlets like being in nature, reading a lot to escape from what I was feeling and writing a lot. So I started journaling from the time I was in grade five, I think, was my first diary. But I was able to dump out what was happening in my head to look at it. So I had this self awareness really early on, again, my mom was a huge influence. In grade six, I would go home every day crying, because people were teasing me, whatever. And she sat me down and she's like, I knew at that moment, I couldn't tell you that like, Oh, it's okay. You're beautiful. Like, that's not what you needed from me at that moment. She's like, what I had to help you to empower you was to tell you that you had a choice. And so that's her thing is like, you always have a choice. And so she's like, you could change to be what they want you to be, but chances are they'll just find something else to tease you about, because that's what kids do. Or you can be yourself, and you might not have a lot of friends, but the friends that you do have will be ones that don't care about your body. Um, and that seemed like an easier route for me. And so to this day, like my best friend is still my best friend from girls.
Katelyn:
That's amazing. Your mom, by the way- what amazing, amazing advice.
Teri:
She was, yeah, like now as an adult, I'm like, you don't even know. Yeah, that allowed me to make that decision. And like early on in grade six, or grade seven, to say, am I going to waste my time trying to be somebody else for other people? Or how can I use all these feelings that you know, those feelings you have when you're like grade seven, and eight, where everything's just tumultuous and tough, I think. And so I started playing sports, because I was like that- I get my rage out at volleyball. And so instead of turning it inward, I turned it into something. And I would focus on all the things I was capable of doing. And so I just stayed busy for most of high school. Like junior high and high school, I didn't have time to even hear what people were saying if they were saying anything at that point. But I was still having influences. We didn't have the internet back in my day. And like we do now, like there was no social media. So that was a huge blessing I think because I was able to escape the media. If I wanted to now, I think it would be incredibly difficult because you go home, and it's still there. It's everywhere. And because I learned that self deprecating humor that became my- I'm not a big fan of small talk, I'm not a big fan of networking, or like being in situations that make me uncomfortable- so that became my armor for those situations that you have to go into was let me make a joke about myself or call something to your attention about me that I'm insecure about, but make it like funny or make it something so you'll like me for. And so that kind of became my armor for going to events or seeing people and then eventually one day I was like, I wonder if this is having an effect on me. And then I was like, oh, yeah, just because you're laughing at it doesn't make it any less true in your mind.
Katelyn:
What was that lightbulb moment like for you? Were you in high school at that time? Was it after?
Teri:
Oh, it was way later. So after high school, it seems like a lot of things happened in a very short amount of time. So I went and I taught English in Korea for two years. But while I was there, I actually lost like 100 pounds, and got into bodybuilding and martial arts. And I was like, kicking ass and it was awesome. But yeah, there's a whole bunch…
Katelyn:
Oh, pause. So that is a dramatic amount of weight to lose. So how did that impact your mindset? As your body is changing were you getting feedback or reinforcement in that culture, positive or negative? Like how was that change impacting yourself?
Teri:
Yeah, so there were a lot of factors at play looking at it now. So number one was I was, I think I was like 21, or 20 when I went to Korea, and so my prefrontal cortex still hadn't fully developed. So I have no critical thinking skills really, which is why I went to Korea in three days of knowing I had a job like, Oh, my God, I'm just gonna go, and then it'll be great. But anyways, because of that, up into that point, number one- I never had male attention, really. Like the boys I liked, they rarely liked me back, they only liked me as a friend. So even before weight started coming off, like being there being Caucasian, like I was a novelty for Asian men essentially. And so I liked that, because I had never experienced it before, even if it wasn't an honest relationship- so that fed into the ego. And then I was lonely. I was in a place, I could barely speak the language I had nobody really to hang out with. And when you're lonely, you like to distract yourself. So I got into martial arts, which was great. But that really sped up the weight loss that was happening because their food is just completely different. Like it's just a different life over there that way. And as a result of that, I saw it as Oh, losing weight will help me be better at this task. But then, people started complimenting me. And then Facebook became a thing around that time. And so people at home were also like, holy shit, like, you're not the same person you were when you left, like, wow, you're doing it like you're achieving the thing we all want. And so being 21, you're like, Yeah, I know. And like super egotistical about it, but I actually hated my body more. Because I couldn't be small enough. Because up until that point, I started losing weight by accident. Like I didn't plan it. It just happened being there. Up until that point, I had just been like, this is my body- this is what she does, like, and I do the things. And so when the weight started coming off, I was like, Oh my god, maybe I am a thin person trapped inside a fat body- the thing they always told me was true. And so then once I had a taste of it, I wanted more and more and more to the point that I actually had gotten my body down to about 157 pounds, which for my frame is not great. Like I look like a bobble head when I look at photos. It's quite terrifying. And definitely disordered eating, definitely orthorexia, where I was working out six hours a day. It became my job. And eating literally the same thing. Everything was very disordered to the point also that I started taking diet pills. And then what happened was, I would get heart palpitations and my eyelids were fluttering in the night. And I'm 21 like, this shouldn't be happening. So this again was that self awareness piece- I'm so glad that I have it cuz it's like this little voice in my head that's like, What the fuck are you doing? Like, this is not okay, no matter how many people on the bodybuilding forums are like, no, that's just part of it- you have to go through this to get the goals you want. Like literally people were cheering me on because I'd lost my period because I was on diet pills and losing weight so much. And they were like, no, that's just what happens. I'm like, Are you fucking kidding me? Like, at least I had the self awareness to be like, whoa.
Katelyn:
What was that moment like for you where you realized something had to change? Where it wasn't working for you anymore?
Teri:
Well, it was just a little bit like, this doesn't feel right. I'm very big on like, when things don't align, like I can feel it in my whole body. And it makes me more uncomfortable than good. I was still very obsessed with weighing myself and stuff like that, but I stopped taking the diet pills. I was like, that's too far. I'm not doing that. But then shortly after that, I had to come back to Canada. I just felt like, Oh, I think it's time to go back home. I couldn't explain why just again, a feeling. So I moved back to Canada and about three months after I got home, my dad was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. And so if you don't know what pancreatic cancer does, it starves people to death. And so over the course of three months, I watched my dad essentially starve to death. And it was a wake up call because here I was purposefully starving myself to look a certain way. And all he wanted to do was eat something, anything to stay in his body and he couldn't even do that. And so I was like, this is fucked. And that kind of was like a huge wake up call like, no, it's not okay, what you're doing.
Katelyn:
I'm so sorry to hear about your dad. And I also think the parallel of those two events is wild- the synchronicity is pretty crazy.
Teri:
Yeah. So that's why I'm always like, I think things happen for a reason or whatever.
Katelyn:
Yeah, I'm a big believer in that, too. So what's the next chapter? What did you realize from there?
Teri:
Well, interestingly enough, I went on to work for a weight loss company.
Katelyn:
Okay, so this is not uncommon, though.
Teri:
Like I knew what I had been doing, I had taken it too far. And that was kind of a wake up call. But still, I was like, well, I understood the science of macros. And I was like, it's achieving things. And I'm a big overachiever. And I'm like, I want to help empower people. So this company moved into the city, and they were looking for somebody that would be good. I'm like, oh, number one, they use the same science that I use, essentially, like balancing macros, and all that good stuff. And you get to coach people like the sounds amazing. Like I’d be a great fit for this. And so working for that company also did a number on my self esteem, because they hired me, and at that point, they were like, We hired you, because you don't look like a typical weight loss coach. Because I wasn't thin, if that makes sense. For my frame, I was still quite small but I still was like X pounds at that point. And so I thought I was like, Yay, they love me as I am. No, they wanted to hire me at the weight I was with the hopes that on their program, people could watch me lose more weight. And after two years, I was like, no. And what did it for me was going to a manager's meeting and hearing them say we rely on 80% of the clients to fail for our profit margin. Yeah. And so I was like, bye! Like, that kind of lifted the veil on diet culture for me for the first time fully so I could see. Like the Wizard of Oz kind of thing, where you're like, oh, like, this is all bullshit, like all of it is just bullshit. And then I left that job and I was like, I don't care what job I have next, it just can't be this. So I went and worked in insurance and stuff like that for a while.
Katelyn:
So when you left that job did you finally feel like you had the permission to just be in your body? Did you have to do a lot of soul searching around that?
Teri:
I think I went the other way, then, because they had told me what I couldn't eat for two years and what I had to do for two years, and then I was like, fuck it all- I'm going to do the opposite. I'm not going to work out my body. I'm going to eat whatever I want, which is also not a great method of self care. But it's just a typical binge and purge cycle, right? I had restricted myself for so long, that my body was like, just give me whatever you can get. And so I did, and I didn't care. And not just in food, but also in relationships, and spending. It just turned into this, like this need to fill this emptiness. The other thing that happened was after my dad's passing, I never dealt with that. So I'm very good at pushing things down. It wasn't until I read The Alchemist, which is a great book if you haven't read it, but it has to come to you at the right time. That's the thing. Like you can't just go out and buy it. Something's gotta give it to you or tell you about it. So maybe you listen to this, and go get it. But reading that book, basically, it's like, no, you're supposed to go follow your own path. And I had been trying to fit into the mold of what everyone wanted. Like, I had a house, I had a partner who wanted to have kids. And I did not want to have kids. But he was like, you'll change your mind as most people say. And I'm like, No, I will not. I was doing all the things adults should do. And I hated everything. And so it was easy for me to hate my body. Then it was to take stock of the rest of my life that I hated. But then after reading The Alchemist, it's like you're not fulfilling your purpose, essentially. So go do that thing. And so I broke up with the boy, I sold my house, I moved to the city where I now live with my husband. And after about one year of still being in insurance, I used them to transfer me so I didn't have to pay for that, which is great, I pursued photography.
Katelyn:
Oh my god. So it sounds like you're really starting to come into your own at this point. And why photography?
Teri:
So I had always done photography, like even on the farm, but being on a farm, they're like that's not a job- that's a great hobby. So they're like, go to school, be a teacher, I was like, Okay, fine. Again, listening to everyone else, except for myself. When I will have to go through it. Well, that's the thing, right? You have to like, build up all the layers and then chip away at what you don't want. I think that's just life. It's like you put all the layers on and then you peel the layers back when it doesn't feel good anymore. I don't want it now. Thank you. It's like Joey from friends when he puts on. That's essentially and you just feel restricted under all of it. Because you're like, this isn't mine. But when I was in Korea, actually, I had gotten back into photography while I was there, because I was lonely. And I was looking for something to do. And I went and bought my first big camera while I was there. And I started taking self portraits. Actually, I wanted to lose all that weight to get into plus size modeling, like that should tell you how fucked up the fashion industry is. Like, oh, now you can plus size model that you're 100 pounds less like, What? That's dumb. Yeah, that's what it was back then. Thankfully, it's come a long way. Since then, there's still a lot to do. But, I got back into photography as a method. And I was actually very good at it, like naturally good at it. And then I decided when I moved back again, I was like, I could do this for a job, you know, naturally didn't take a business class, but let's do it. And so I was always doing it part time, even while I worked at the weight loss clinic. While I worked for insurance I was always on the weekends doing occasional weddings. And then I was like, No, like, I really want to do this, but I kept doing weddings because everyone said that's what you should do. That's how you make all the money. And then it wasn't until about 2014 that I was attending another workshop and I met somebody that was doing boudoir photography, which at that time, I didn't know what the hell that was. I was like, this is the thing that people can do. And I was doing family photos. And so she's like, I'll swap you, you photograph my family and I'll do a boudoir session for you. So I was like, Okay, cool. Yeah. Awesome. And so we did that. But then I got my photos back, and they're beautiful. But all I got back was headshots. And I was like, I mean, yeah, my face is beautiful, of course, but I was like, but also I've got like, a 34 inch inseam. I've got nice legs woman and my tum. And that's when I started to look at the photography industry as a whole. And nobody was photographing fat bodies. And if they were, they weren't showing them. And so that kind of made me mad. So I was like, let's fix that.
Katelyn:
That's so interesting. I love boudoir photography, because it's a celebration of the body. And to get back just a headshot. That's like a slap on the face.
Teri:
But back in 2014, nobody was photographing fat bodies. Most boudoir photography, you would have seen, was featuring people that were like a size two to a size six, anything above that would rarely be shown. And if it was shown, it was just like in the back pages, like the plus sized apartment in a store. It's like hidden at the very end, because they don't get as many likes at that time for sure. And I'm very big at spotting trends. So I could see where the body positivity movement was going. So I was like, somebody's gotta do this and fuel this need, like bodies like mine and other bodies need to be seen- everybody should be able to have photos. And so yeah, that's why that's what got me into that.
Katelyn:
So that was the moment where you realized, okay, I'm pivoting my target market in terms of how I'm photographing and you switch to boudoir?
Teri:
Yeah, it's not like I built a whole new website to stop advertising weddings. This is the thing I'm very like intuitively driven if you can't tell by now. And actually what happened was I had done a project before I decided to make that transition. I did a project to shoot myself, but also people because the internet was a thing and there wasn't one body- people are like I need boobs like this, I need to have a bum like that, I need to have a waist like this. And it's like, there isn't one person that actually has all those things that we keep trying to have. And I wanted to show that. So I put up a thing on Facebook, I was like, hey, I'll take your photo, it's like a 10 minute photoshoot, you can learn as much or as little as you want. There's no Photoshop, and we'll just get it done. And I thought I'd get like 20 people, but I actually ended up with 75 women, which sat between two provinces. So I have this huge poster in my studio. It's not here, unfortunately. But with all these beautiful bodies just like existing.
Katelyn:
God, I need to see this.
Teri:
Yeah, it's beautiful. It's probably on my website somewhere or on my Instagram. But what came out of that wasn't even the photos, the amount of responses I got from people before they had even seen their photos was you don't know how much confidence I have just from showing up. You don't know how much of a difference this made- I came from a family where I wasn't even allowed to be in the hallway in my underwear. And it went beyond body image to sexual liberation to just existing to celebrating their queerness like, whatever it was, and I had no intention of any of that. I was just like, I just want to photograph bodies. And so I was like, shit, if I can do that in five minutes, what can I do if I have a whole day with these people? And then that was the thing that I was like, this is where I'm meant to be.
Katelyn:
So where was that? What were you kind of gauging from there?
Teri:
Well, that was to go into intimate photography or boudoir photography at that point. And then for myself, that was when I also started to realize- I remember, I was in the gym one day, and I was like, when did I stop seeing myself as a body? Like literally that was a thought that popped into my head, which is like, this is my brain, sometimes she just talks to me. But um, but that was a thought that I had. And I was like, Oh, I don't even know. Because I've been so busy serving people that it wasn't about me anymore. And and now it's kind of interesting, because now I use my body, I always say this is my form of activism is using my body in a way, like a lot of self portraits now and things like that, to show people that have bodies like mine that you can show up or not even just exist.
Katelyn:
I love it. You've had so many layers in your career, and I love it. I love that you have this passion for taking inspired action, which clearly is working for you. But I want to pause on photography and just get a little bit more insight of things that you've learned, trends that you've seen, possibly like some forecasting for where this industry is going. And also, for anybody who's listening right now, especially at the time that we're recording this, things are slowly coming back to life after COVID. We're getting back together again, where we'll be attending events. We're just kind of getting back into normal life where photography, picture taking is a thing in life- it captures these amazing memories. What have you learned? And what have you seen with people that you’ve worked with that might be helpful for anybody who's like, fucking freaked out to have their picture taken? Or anything that you want to jam on with photography?
Teri:
Yeah, for sure. So I actually do a whole talk on Six Reasons You Look Like Shit In Photos. Because it has nothing to do with the photos. And it has nothing to do with your body. It has everything to do with your mindset about how you're viewing yourself. So the biggest thing I always encourage people to do, and this is something I've learned after photographing. After seven, six years of doing photography, I photograph 1000s of bodies, essentially at this point in my career. And the thing is, every single person that has come to see me has been like, Oh, I don't look good in photos, or I can't take a good photo. And I'm like, okay, clearly there's something going on. If somebody who's a size zero, thinks that they look like shit in photos, and somebody who's a size 24 thinks that they look like shit in photos, then maybe it's not about your body at all. And maybe it has more to do with the mindset going into viewing photos of yourself and what you're expecting to see versus what you're actually seeing. And so, the way I encourage people to think of it is that your brain has a representation of how you look based on reflection, a mirror image of yourself, if that makes sense. And the reality is, the majority of us are not symmetrical, which is why if you go on Tik Tok, there's like a filter that will flip your face. And people are like, Oh my God, that's how people see you. Like, it's not bad, it's just different. And the thing is, when our brain gets uncomfortable, your brain has a little bit of a hike in your cortisol because it's like, well, that's not me. Like, that's not my representation of Teri. We interpret that to mean with all the other bullshit that we've learned along the way that something must be wrong. It's my fault my body looks terrible, I knew it. And it's confirmation bias for the beliefs that are waiting to attack, if that makes sense. But the reality is, the stress that happens is just your brain being uncomfortable. It literally is like, Oh, this is new. And the more you look at it, the more comfortable you will become and teach your brain that you can look different in different scenarios. But the problem is, we don't do that. We're just like, Oh, I never want to see it again. And then we never get our photos taken again. And so we're literally creating the behavior that creates the thought to begin with. So it's a self fulfilling prophecy. That happens. And so I encourage people, when you look at a photo, if at first you're uncomfortable, sit with it for a minute, take a break, if you need but come back to it. Take a look at the context- how did I feel when that photo was taken? Who was I with? And what were we doing? Because photography doesn't owe you perfection. I'm sorry, what kind of expectations are people putting on photography, because photography was invented to document a moment in time. And if in that moment in time, you maybe have a double chin, a belly roll, a back roll, your tongue hanging out, your one eye is closed. That's literally just what you look like for that second. It's not good. And it's not bad. It's just a fact. But we take that, and we say, oh, here's the belief about it. And then we try saying we're making it mean something that it doesn't. Does that make sense? And we have to step back a little bit from it and just see what actually happened. So I actually have a rule called the one shot selfie. So if you take a photo with me, you literally get one, because life is too short, I'm not wasting my precious seconds to get the perfect photo, that's just stupid. I've got things to do.
Katelyn:
I love it. There's so much value in everything that you just shared. I'm also a big fan- and I'd love to hear your professional opinion about this too- to really set some boundaries around looking at photos too. Like if you are not in the best place emotionally, or you just are in an event where there's a possibility that the image that you see could potentially impact the way that you show up in the rest of the event, to snap the picture and look at it the next day or the next week- whenever you're at the place where like you're saying you can actually habituate a little bit more it sounds like.
Teri:
Well, I think the other thing to keep in mind too is what's happening if people take a picture at an event, let's think about what I had said right at the beginning, I said when I go into events that I'm not comfortable and my usual default behavior is to make fun of myself. Right? So people go to these events, they're already probably feeling slightly insecure, slightly uncomfortable, for the most part. So their stress is up. When your stress levels are up, your defenses for self-talk are down. Which means your brain is on the lookout for negativity, it is looking for risk, it's looking for everything. So knowing that, don't look at a photo of yourself, if you know that you're slightly stressed out, because your brain is going to look for every single thing that's wrong with it. And I'm going to put that in quotes because there isn't anything wrong with it. That's just what you look like but you're gonna make it mean something worse than it actually is. And I actually have a perfect example of this for myself. One day, I was feeling like shit about my business and it was just not good in a good space in my mind. And I was like, I'm gonna take some self portraits which I wouldn't recommend to everyone on a day that you feel sad about yourself, but I did it- I was like, you know, I'm just gonna do it. Anyways, I was frustrated. I was trying to do it and I took a photo and I was like all these are disgusting literally were the words but I kept them and I shuffled them away into a folder. And then like two weeks went by, and like, life changed, obviously, everything is temporary. So then I was in a relatively neutral or positive state. And somebody's like, hey, I need a headshot of you, or I need a photo of you for something. So I went to a folder where I had dumped those pictures. And I remember coming across one, I'm like, Oh my God, look how cute my tummy is. I was like, these are cute- why didn't I see these before? And that's when I realized the photo hadn't changed, my mind did. And that's when I realized the impact of what you want, what you are telling yourself, you'll see is exactly what you're gonna see. And so I set that expectation with my clients. Now, before they see their photos. I'm like, if you come in here, and your mind is like, Oh, I'm gonna look like shit. Oh, my stomach's gonna look gross. Oh, yeah, it will, it doesn't matter how good a photo I take, if you are dead set on seeing that, that's exactly what you're going to see. And so that's where I put the responsibility back on my clients. I'm like, I can only do so much like at some point, you have to take responsibility for what you're making this mean.
Katelyn:
So I have a question that just popped into my mind. What's your opinion about the psychology of photography, as it relates to genetics and body image? So for example, I hear this a lot with clients and I've experienced this myself too, but growing up, and this is hypothetical, but let's just say growing up and possibly having some type of tumultuous relationship with your grandma, but you have your grandma's nose. And every time you look at a picture of yourself, you see your grandma in the picture, because all you can do is fixate on your nose, which is equivalent to your grandma. And so it kind of spirals into this space of negativity. And that's all that you can really appreciate in the picture. Does that make sense?
Teri:
Yeah, 100% that's the other thing I tell clients every time, before they see their photos, I'm like, over the last 25 plus years, you've taught yourself, you've conditioned yourself that when you see a photo of yourself to hyper focus on the part of yourself that you are the most insecure or fearful of. And when that happens, again, you miss the context of the photo, you're so busy looking to make sure that part of yourself either measures up to current beauty standards, or confirms your fears about how you don't measure up to the standards or confirms your fears about how you know, oh, I'm gonna see my grandma in this photo. Again, if you're saying that you will, because you're looking for it. But if you say no, this is what I look like, that is my nose because it is on my face. That is my nose. Yeah, it has nothing to do with her. She is not here. And while she might be in the photo, but like cut around, I don't know. But like, I think this goes back to the thing my mom said- you have a choice. The thing is we forget, as adults, that we have a choice in the things we think and the actions we take. So when people look at a photo of my body, they're like, Oh, my body's beautiful. Okay, now, I want you to say that to yourself. And they're like, Oh, no, I don't believe it when you but you chose to believe it about me. Because here's the thing, there's a lot of people out there that choose not to believe it about my body. And so just as you have free will and choice to choose that about me, you can choose it about yourself, but you're not choosing it, you're going with default behavior. And so catch yourself saying the thing and then ask yourself, Is this helping me be the person I want to be? Is this benefiting my body image? Like, does this make me like myself more? If the answer is no, stop doing it.
Katelyn;
Yeah, totally. Well, from what you're sharing right here, too, there's so much to unpack in a culture that basically says, Don't pump yourself up too much. Don't boast, don't brag, don't love yourself too much. Don't you know all of these things, when the reality is we should be in this space where we can appreciate our bodies and what they can do. If you're not at that place where it's love, that's totally fine. But even just saying, I'm awesome, I'm great. I'm, fill in the blank with a value or a quality that you have or something that you like about yourself, something that you can genuinely express that for we should be doing more of that, especially as women in this culture.
Teri:
And that's the thing I always tell people like if you research negativity bias. Again, I have a whole talk about that. But like, our brain is hardwired for negativity, some people more than others. And so what happens is either you'll learn to seek validation from other people, which is usually easier because then if they don't make you feel good, then you can blame them. It's not about you. Right? But the reality is if we keep letting other people like we're like, no, that person I'm with isn't making me happier, that person is making fun of me or that person's not telling me I'm beautiful. It's like, are you doing those things? Like, are you telling yourself you're beautiful? Are you telling yourself you're a piece of shit? Like, What part do you play, because they have to worry about their own body image. Like, they also are not responsible for filling up your cup. So I always encourage people, like every day, you need to be filling up your own cup, whether it be through gratitude practices, writing in a journal, just like self high five, I do that to myself all the time. And just being like, You're cute, like, You're okay today, you know, and just like having those conversations with yourself, because, yeah, it's easier to expect other people to, but if you're taking the praise from other people, you're gonna take the criticism from other people. But if your cup is constantly full, because you're choosing to fill up your cup, the next time somebody comes along and says, You're a piece of shit, it's just going to bounce out of your cup, because there's no room left. And you're like, Okay. And then there's more room for empathy towards that person to be like, Oh, how sad your life must be. You know, instead of taking it personally.
Katelyn:
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it goes back to the concept of you being in a relationship with yourself. And that being the most important relationship that we have in our lives. So I love everything that you just said. What's after photography? Because like we already established you have many chapters in your career index, and they all are starting to weave together at the same time, too. So when did you decide to put it into the work that you're doing now? And I know you still do photography, but what was that like for you?
Teri:
Yeah, so it was actually not too long into my boudoir career, to be honest, about six months in. Because you know, I was new at it. So I didn't know what the hell I was doing, really. So I was looking to Pinterest and other boudoir photographers that came before me. And it was okay technically, but I always felt a disconnect with it. Because it's very much from the male gaze, and very much about objectifying women and making them a product like, put on the sports jersey, and I'm like, Well, do you even play sports? And they're like, no one was wearing this, like, it just didn't make sense in my head. That's not how I wanted to run my business. If people like to do that, you can do that. But I'm just saying that's not for me. I just realized I wanted to do something different with the work that I was doing. But there wasn't really anyone doing it that way at that time. So I started to spend time doing projects, like that's how I gained my data, essentially, that's how I do my science projects, it's easier to get people weirdly enough to come in for a photoshoot, so I can talk to them about eating disorders, or talk to them about what it means to be a woman over 40. I was able to gain information by having these little projects I was doing. And then from that, there was an experience with a few clients and like 2% of clients where a photoshoot wasn't enough. They were like, yeah, I guess I look okay, but they still hated themselves. So I was like, well, that's not okay with me. I'm like, there's got to be more to this, then then what is on the surface. So that's when I started to look into the psychology of body image, like doing a lot of self study. And I created a body image boot camp for my clients so I ran it here in Winnipeg. And it was just like a, I think at that time, it was like a six or eight week course, where once a week we get together and it was to walk people through where their body image began, and then how they're perpetuating it, and then how to move forward from it kind of thing. And then about two years after running it here, I then started offering it to photographers, because I knew I wanted to be able to teach it a lot. But as one person, I can only do so much. So I was like, Well, what if I taught other photographers how to do it, and then they can go and do it for their clients. And then it's like an exponential impact, which is great for me. And so that kind of came out of that. And then I went back to school for positive psychology because I knew I wanted to learn more about how the brain works. And that's when I really understood that it has nothing, literally nothing to do with your body. If you and I were a perfect example. I was worse off. I hated myself more at 150 pounds than I did at 250 pounds. Right? And so I was like yeah, that couldn't be about the body then like there's no magical number you're gonna get to where you're like, Yeah, I do feel valued. Like that's not how it works. And so understanding the psychology aspect of mindset is kind of what propelled me to write my book The Geode Theory. So I was able to take all these concepts that usually are applied more to just like living more than anything and really like to hone them down into what it means for body image. And yeah, and so that's kind of where I'm at now. But I spend a lot of time educating other photographers and consulting other photographers on how to confront their own body image biases and mindset biases. So that way, they're not impacting their clients in a negative way.
Katelyn:
I love that it's so robust. So from a positive psychology aspect, and from a mindset aspect that I know you've kind of woven in some of the research and the language in your story so far, but just from a pure body image standpoint- whether it's related to photography, or just you wake up one day, and you're like, today is a horrible bad body image day. What would you share in terms of a positive psychology viewpoint to perhaps turn that day around? Or just give someone an idea of why that's happening?
Teri:
Yeah. So I think the biggest thing, and the best tool that you can have, regardless if it has to do with body image or not, is to understand that body image is the very top surface. Like, it's not your body. Like there's a lot, it's an iceberg. There's so much stuff going on underneath that belief, but your body is the tangible aspect of you. So it's easy to blame that thing for why you feel like shit. And the layers are big.
Katelyn:
Yeah, tons of layers.
Teri:
But the first thing you have to do before you can even chip away at those layers is literally just get curious. But you have to hear what you're saying first, before you can dissect what you're saying. The activity I give people to do is to stand naked in front of the mirror for two minutes, set a timer because it's longer than you think it is. And either record yourself talking exactly what's in your head, like no matter how vile and terrible thoughts are, if you don't get them out, they're just swimming around waiting. But once you can get them out and say, Oh, my stomach's disgusting, or my stretch marks are ugly, or, oh, I'm just uncomfortable in my body or whatever the thing is, now you can do something, you can say, Why do I feel like that? Where did I learn that having a big tummy is bad? Who taught me that? Is it helping? Who do I want to be? And is that thought helping me? What thought would help me better get to the goal that I want? So curiosity is such an important tool, because it's not judgmental. This is why I don't like the body positive movement anymore. What it's turned into, is because before people are like, Oh, I hate my body. And now and then they would just hate their body. That's it. Now they're like, Oh, I hate my body. Oh, no, I shouldn't be feeling bad about my body. So now it's like a double whammy of shame that now they're just like, no, I feel super shitty about myself. And clearly that doesn't get you anywhere. But if you aim for body neutrality, or body liberation, just saying like, you know what, I'm not a fan of the way I look today. And there's probably a lot of reasons contributing to that. I'm going to be compassionate with myself today, I'm going to wear clothes that make me feel comfortable, I'm going to not look in the mirror, I'm not going to take photos of myself, I'm not going to look for validation from other people, I'm going to drink a lot of water, I'm going to maybe have a nap, because that helps a lot of the time. And I'm going to journal what I'm thinking. And then that's it.
Katelyn:
I love that it's such a tiny little self care toolkit. And also just being aware of the things that trigger the negative body image days as well, too. And really acknowledging we're not touching this today, we're not using this. And I love your acknowledgement of verbal processing or written processing, just getting it out of your mind. It's so important.
Teri:
And it just allows you to further question but if it stays in there, then it's just attaching onto it's waiting. It's going to wait until you're stressed out again. And then the thoughts bubble up to the surface again or you go bathing suit shopping and then it's going to come up to the surface because you're already stressed out before you've even put on the bathing suit. And there's like so many factors that contribute to the mindset piece to it. That it's so important. But the other thing is once you have it written out, let's say you're like, oh, like my stretch marks are ugly. I get people to do the What does that mean? question. And to say that seven times. So you say, Oh, my stretch marks are ugly. Well, what does that mean? Well, that means that I'm not attractive. And what does that mean? Well, that means that people aren't gonna like me. And what does that mean? And by doing that five to seven times, you'll get to the actual fear that like animal brain part that's fearful that's causing you to have these thoughts, which is usually, I'm afraid to be alone, I'm afraid to be humiliated, because then I'll be alone, because it all leads to death back when we were cavemen. Basically, your whole brain is just afraid of something. But if you don't go give yourself the compassion and the time to get through that you won't be able to parent that part of yourself that is scared, and terrified and fearful. And usually, it's some little part of yourself that never felt safe back in the day. I call it my tiny Teri. So I'm like tiny Teri, like, how would I treat a child right now? Like, I wouldn't berate them for feeling this way. So I would say no, you're loved, you're safe, you're supported. And you're okay. And so I just repeat that I actually haven't written like five different places around my house- I'm safe, I'm supported, and I'm I'm okay. Because that reminds tiny Teri that she's okay. And that calms that animal brain down. So the rational brain can come up and be like, see, you're making something mean something that it doesn't?
ig (2).png
Katelyn:
Oh, so good, Teri. I love that exercise. And I just love everything that you're sharing. Before we wrap up today, I cannot wrap up this interview without getting your thoughts on social media, especially being a body image coach, a photographer running a business. And I also know that you do digital detox retreats and workshops. So just go ahead, get on a soapbox jam on your opinion of social media and its place in our culture right now.
Teri:
Yeah, so I think there's again, looking at the broader context of why we use social media is imperative. Because what will happen is, if you don't recognize just like body image, like when do I feel shit about my body? And when do I go on social media, like pay attention to that, because the thing is, you will recognize patterns. We go on it hoping to feel better about ourselves in some capacity. But more often than not, we end up feeling less satisfied, because it's not actual, that goes back to filling up the cup. If you don't think that you are worthy enough, you're seeking validation from other people, either you're looking to see who you could become and not appreciating who you are now, or you're looking at people and making fun of them to make yourself feel better, right? Different types of comparison. Or you're posting a photo and waiting for those likes to roll in to make you feel good. Whether you're a photographer or not, or a business person, like it doesn't matter, whatever you post, you're hoping for engagement, because that'll make you feel less alone. But then what happens is you get the little dopamine hit, you know, you're like, Yeah, I did it. Yay, people are gonna like it. And then nobody likes it. What happens? Well, now you feel sad. And then we want to distract ourselves again. So then we go back and try to do it again. And then the same thing happens. Because when we do have those moments where like, maybe we get hundreds of likes on something or lots of comments or whatever we're like, Oh, my God, people like me. Again, that's the heart of it. Your animal brain is like, we're never going to be alone. This is fantastic. We're super safe, until you post the next thing and you get crickets. And now you're over. It's like, wait, wait, what? Everything we have just went away, which isn't true. But that's what your brain thinks. So you have to be cognizant enough and think critically enough to know, why am I posting this thing? What outcome Am I hoping for by posting this? And what happens if I don't get that outcome? How will I feel? But the thing is, nobody thinks about that. So because of social media, it's like in the palm of our hand, and we're just like, yeah, this feels good right now. Yeah. And it literally is like drinking seven cups of coffee, or, you know, eating lots of sugary food or whatever the thing is that you liked. Shopping was my thing for a while, like buying clothes when I was bored, because I'm like boredom means I'm alone, which means I'm lonely, which means I want to distract from this feeling of acknowledging that I'm lonely. And so then I'll go spend money instead because I get the dopamine hit when I buy the thing and then when it shows up, I feel super guilty and bad. And then guess what? I feel bad. So guess what I want to do to distract myself from feeling bad. So I go back and I do it all over again. And so we have to manage our emotions, we have to stop relying on social media and other people to manage and regulate our emotions for us. If we can do that, then it doesn't hold power over us. But we have to recognize that it's happening in the first place. So I actually last week just gave like- I have a community on Facebook for photographers- and I gave them the challenge to just pay attention to your social media usage and just like, keep an eye on it. Like, why are you going on there? What are you hoping for? And just like pushing it and seeing what happens. And it's fascinating to watch, because I did it for myself, too. And I was like, Oh, yeah, I definitely did go on there just because I was bored. I definitely did go on there. And I got sad when somebody didn't like my thing, or left a comment that was negative. Social media, literally, they're not dumb. The people that make social media know psychology, for sure. They know how to hook you. They know how to feed into the negativity bias. They know how to feed into your confirmation bias to say, Oh, see what I know to be true is true. And they know how to show you things that are going to make you feel like shit. So that way you'll buy more things.
Katelyn:
Yeah, I totally agree I've had so much dissonance around social media this past year, especially as a business owner and a body image coach myself. And personally, why I use it. I'm not a big social media person in general. I know I'm kind of out of the norm, but I don't go on it just to pass time. I never really have. But at the same time, I understand the marketing tool and the power of building communities that are really awesome and crowding out all of the diet culture bullshit by posting incredible content that's educational and supportive for anybody who is interested in that. I know it's not clear cut. I know it's not black or white. But there's so many emotions that come up.
Teri:
Yeah, if you can lean into the power piece of it. I think that would be the advice that I give people because it's very easy to want to engage on somebody else's platform. So somebody who posts something that you disagree with will say, right, and then her in her comments on her platform, how I feel that what she posted is bad. So I'm gonna write down in the comments, and then that riles you up, and then it's just like a debate that never wins. Nobody wins in an internet debate. Just understand that expectation, right? So what I encourage people to do if you disagree with what somebody has written, and you're so riled up, and you're like, people need to know the opposite. Use your platform to do that. Don't go to their platform, because their platform is usually followers that believe what they believe. And so you're just gonna get roasted, and it's gonna make you feel like shit, and disempowered and lacking in confidence, and just not great. But if you go to your platform, where people are already kind of buying into the idea that diet culture is bullshit, or things like that, and you're like, Hey, I saw this meme floating around. And this is how it made me feel, and here's why I don't like it, then you're gonna have people that agree. And if there are people that don't agree, then you simply comment back and be like, hey, the amount of time it took you to write this here, you could have used your own platform. And that has been one of the best self regulation tools for myself, because I used to feel like oh, no, I have to let them know that what they posted is bad and wrong. And it's like, wait a minute, you have a platform and I have a platform, so I won't go to them, I'll just talk about it on my platform.
Katelyn:
I love it. I'm writing down self regulation, because I feel like it's the theme that keeps coming up in your story. And just who you are as a person and your values and what you are contributing to this world- self regulation, self awareness, all these things. It's so powerful. And you know, it's one of those concepts that I think we hear a lot, but we don't really understand it at the same time. And so I just appreciate you showing up and sharing your own personal experience around what this means for you, and also your professional expertise around how others can take this and apply it in their own lives.
Teri:
The biggest thing is I just want people to be like you want less stress because more stress makes bad body image. So less stress will help you have a better body image. So let's reduce your stress by not engaging with people that don't want to be engaged.
Katelyn:
Totally- less stress in so many other ways. We could do a whole other podcast episode on stress reduction techniques and also how it impacts body image just like you said. Teri you are incredible- where can everybody find you, follow you, engage with you, become a part of your community, all the things?
Teri:
Oh yeah so if you want to follow me on Instagram is probably the most popular at the moment. So just instagram.com/terihofford. If you are a photographer, I do have a community on Facebook called Beyond the Body: Mindset and Body Image for Photographers. So feel free to come join if you want to learn more about what responsibility you play. I'm big on personal responsibility in case you can't tell. And if you want to get a copy of my book you can find that on my website at terihofford.com/the-geode-theory.
Katelyn:
Cool. We'll link everything in the show notes to keep it super easy for everyone but thank you so much. I love this conversation. Love the work that you're doing and just the person that you are and can't wait to keep this friendship going as well too.
Teri:
Thank you for having me. I love interviews.
Katelyn:
You're awesome. I'll talk soon.